engines?????

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 10:53 pm

ok ive heard alot of talking about different engines and their nick names, redtops, r90, ecotech. im a bit confused what is what?

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:35 pm

"R90" refers to ALL "big block" Opel motors, EVERY ONE. this is the platform that the engine is designed from. this "R90" can be seen in nearly ever part from the side of the block to the engine covers. R90 includes the 1.8 SOHC from the early 80's, the 2.0 SOHC's the early and late C20 (or first family DOHC's) and the Iron Ecotecs, from the 1.8, 2.0 and 2.2 (Z20, X20, U20...) Like I said before EVERY big block.

With the popularity of the Iron Ecotec or the Opel Ecotec in the mid 90's "Ecotec" has been put on everything GM, there are more ecotecs that than its worth to go over. Ecotec doesn't mean anything in the sense that VTEC means something but it is basically ECOnomical TEChnology. like said before, the Opel ecotec started to replace the "redtop" in the mid 90's and if I'm not mistaken there was a bit of overlap where both motors where available.

The Redtop is the first generation of the Opel DOHC (about 85-94) and there are several variations (with the heads) to which none of the head parts are interchangeable with Ecotec. because the blocks are based on the same platform all of the 2.0 internals are the same (for the most part), you can use steel rods for an '88 Redtop in a 08 Forenza Ecotec. there are slight differences with the cranks as far as the main bearings and there are tons of different cranks that came in the Redtops. All the Redtop cranks used an eight bolt flywheel mount so you can't use a stornger Redtop crank in an Eco motor with the Eco flywheel.

There is a lot more information that can be shared but that can take up more articles that most people will read. Is there something in particular that you are after?

Garrett

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Fri Mar 07, 2008 11:41 pm

as a quick note...

the 1.6 (A16) that is in the Lanos, Aveo and several Euro models (X16) is considered an Opel "small block" and it runs as far back as the R90 family.

the 1.6VVT (Z16LET) and the 1.8VVT (X18XEL) (like what is in the "Saturn" Astra) are considered Opel "mid size" blocks and is completely new from 2003.

NOTHING about these three motors is related (accept maybe the oil pan and tranny mount) and they are base on their own specific technologies.

Garrett

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:05 am

no im not actually looking for anything in particular, i just hear alot of talk about them on here and i would like to be able to make some sence of it all. thanks for the info

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:12 am

I hope I help more than confused you further.

Garrett

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 12:55 am

They also made a 1.6 big block engine, a 1.6 that's part of the r90 family so to speak.

And also, 'the 1.6VVT (Z16LET)' the VVT 1.6 from the astra's turbo'd?

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 1:56 am

yeah im still confused, not more than before but still dont understand. yeah this is gonna be tough to grasp...

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 7:41 am

What's the confusing part?

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sat Mar 08, 2008 10:09 am

Pir0 wrote:What's the confusing part?

just exactly which engine is what, give me a chevy v8 and i can tell you whats what, but i dont have any experiance with these engines except for the 1.6

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 9:27 am

It's all in the engine code m8.

The only thing it doesnt tell you in the engine code is the amount of valves.

eg.

c20xe - 'C' is the emissions standard. '20', the displacement 2.0 litre. 'X' is the compression ratio, int his case, think it's 10.0:1 - 11.5:1. 'E' is the type of fuel system it has, in this case, it's fuel injected.

Thats what the letters and numbers stand for with that engine. Only thing it, it's a 16v engine but it doesnt tell you that.

Another example,
20seh - No letter infront of the '20', therefore this engine was before the emissions standards came out, and doesnt use a cat or lambda sensor. '20' is again, a 2.0 litre engine. 'S' is a the compression ratio againe, in this case it's 9.5:1 - 10.:1. The 'H' In this case refers to 'high performance', this was because there were several of these similar engines made and this was the one with the most power, due to the high compression ratio and no catalytic converter.

This engine is a 2.0 8v from way back before the 90's lol.

The main nicknames for these two engines are, c20xe - redtop, valver, 16v, xe. 20seh - 'Drity 8v'

this might help,

There are a few things missing of that list. for exmple there's now 'z20let' etc engines, as new emissions standards are enforced. The 'T' at the end of that engine code referes to a turbo.

I'll just go back tob the redtop for a while as i think gse_turbo may have missed a few bits

The Redtop is the first generation of the Opel DOHC (about 85-94) and there are several variations (with the heads) to which none of the head parts are interchangeable with Ecotec. because the blocks are based on the same platform all of the 2.0 internals are the same (for the most part), you can use steel rods for an '88 Redtop in a 08 Forenza Ecotec. there are slight differences with the cranks as far as the main bearings and there are tons of different cranks that came in the Redtops. All the Redtop cranks used an eight bolt flywheel mount so you can't use a stornger Redtop crank in an Eco motor with the Eco flywheel.

A redtop head is interchangable with an ecotec bottom end as the block is identical. Some modifications might be needed in terms of pistons and rods and crank but the actual bare block it self is identical.

The rods and pistons from An Ecotec are pressed together are they not? Where as the Redtop's pistons were connected to the rods using a fully floating gudjon[sp?] pin. But the bore size with the c20xe[redtop] and the x20xe[ectoec] both are the same.

Also, other variants of the redtops included ones that used Distrubers and coils, and the other use d a coil pack system. Aswell as this there were several different timing belt configurations with different versions of the redtop. Earlier redtops timing belts wont fit a new redtop. Ontop of this, some earlier redtops came with what's called a Coscast head, whereas the later ones, almost all of them, came with a GM aluminium head. The difference between them was basically that the costcast wasn't only stronger, but some of the ports were bigger aswell. THis has lead to the Coscast head's being extremely sought after in the uk [not sure about in the US] as the gm head's go porous ver easily from over revving, and especially with their age now. 15-20 years old most of them. They're that sought after, i've seen them going for around 250-500 GPB. Now, comparing that to the price of an average redtop, which is anywhere between 300 and 600. That's pretty expensive.

Now onto the Redtop vs Ecotec. The MAIN reason people want redtops over ectoecs is basically because ecotecs are pretty much all round, worse engines. Because of the emissions standards being introduced, the ecotec, as Garret said, was made to be economical, but they still tried to keep some of the power. The x20xe[ecotec], in comparison to the C20xe[redtop] was down almost 20bhp even those the engines are extremely similar. This is mainly due to the ports on the head being smaller. Which leads me back to the main reason why people prefere the redtops, firstly, they're stronger than ecotecs and they produce more power right from the start than ecotecs, and you see more gain over an ecotec with similar mods, due to the size of the ports on the head. I think the engine itself is also lighter than the ecotec. Hence why you very rarely see an ecotec, but do see redtops or 'redtopturbos' [c20let] in the likes of a Westfield or other kitcars.

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 4:10 pm

ok let me see if i have this right. all (or our engines) are r90. older ones are red tops, and the newer ones are ecoteh? its just that here in the states we dont have alot of the engines that are out there in other parts of the world.

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 1:47 am

It's the same in the europe. Redtops are part of the r90 family as far as im aware.

Ecotech is what replaced the older Vauxhall/Opel engines. Basically, the daewoo engines and most of gm's all came from the same engine, only have evolved and got stricter on emissions and better mpg. Funny part is Lotus designed most of the older engines and Vauxhall changed them to suit, aka, made them easier on the ptrol etc for the ecotech engines.

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 4:56 pm

daewoomofo wrote:ok let me see if i have this right. all (or our engines) are r90. older ones are red tops, and the newer ones are ecoteh? its just that here in the states we dont have alot of the engines that are out there in other parts of the world.

remember like I said before, the R90's are the Big Block Family, the A16 and like motors as seen in the Lanos and Aveo are the Small Block family. For the sake of further confusion will say for now that there nothing alike in these motors other than how they mount to the transmission.

as a quick note...

the 1.6 (A16) that is in the Lanos, Aveo and several Euro models (X16) is considered an Opel "small block" and it runs as far back as the R90 family.

the 1.6VVT (Z16LET) and the 1.8VVT (X18XEL) (like what is in the "Saturn" Astra) are considered Opel "mid size" blocks and is completely new from 2003.

NOTHING about these three motors is related (accept maybe the oil pan and tranny mount) and they are base on their own specific technologies.

Garrett

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 9:25 pm

ok garret thank you. i just wanted to know. that actually does clear up some of my confusion. sorry if i didnt understand you the first time.

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Tue Mar 11, 2008 10:09 pm

daewoomofo wrote: ...sorry if i didnt understand you the first time.

no worries... that's what everyone is here for