SMT6 cracked/broken...should I stick w/ this?

logikal · Post by **logikal** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:27 pm

Hey Danny, come to the northeast and well have the thing up and running in less then a week with a standalone. And if you go with the AEM asa astandalone I can get you my base maps and upload them for you. Just PM and Ill shoot them your way.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Tue Feb 19, 2008 9:45 pm

logikal wrote:Hey Danny, come to the northeast and well have the thing up and running in less then a week with a standalone. And if you go with the AEM asa astandalone I can get you my base maps and upload them for you. Just PM and Ill shoot them your way.

Hmm...

I think I'm going to stick with SMTs.

Thanks for the offer though

logikal · Post by **logikal** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 3:33 pm

Anything to help out a fellow Woo owner

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:08 pm

Efrain A. wrote:theres a myth on the C20LET rods being on the limit at those numbers.

But the bristish don't seem to know the true limits

tbh i dont think an standalone is that much hassle, my ecu is honda but mainly is an standalone. had to be mapped almost from scratch using a b18 base map (totally different engine) and only had to add enough fuel and some timing to get it idle and with a good enough AFR to break the engine in.

should be "easy" by using a similar 2.0 (SR20, K20, 3SGTE) base map and start from there

Tuning a system with a Honda ECU is easy.... you had base maps..... getting an engine up and running without a base map can be a pain.

K20 would be my choice since it's using a speed density calculation ( MAP+ IAT + RPM ) ...... SR20 uses a MAF... I belive the 3SGTE used both a MAF and a MAP depending on year

Nobody knows the true limits of the C20LET components...... the big problem is that they were mass produced so they are all slightly different (unlike most aftermarket rods)

So you might find that three will fail at 600whp and one will fail at 375whp....... or all four might fail at 400whp or all four might be capable of withstanding 700whp.

That's the big issue.... stay conservative and you won't have a problem.... could you push them? sure..... but do you have the time and money to do a complete rebuild because of a rod failure?

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 9:12 pm

logikal wrote:Hey Danny, come to the northeast and well have the thing up and running in less then a week with a standalone. And if you go with the AEM asa astandalone I can get you my base maps and upload them for you. Just PM and Ill shoot them your way.

So the question is how much a week of setup/tuning would cost?

I have a friend that owns a dyno shop so sometimes he lets us use his shop for free.... other times I have to force him to take money (even thought it's about 1/4 of his shop rate)

So honestly I don't know what it would cost to get a standalone up and running when Labor and Dyno time is included.

If you have a round about idea it would be nice to share that with the forum so people know what it would cost.

Piggybacks usually only take an hour or two to get up and running with a nice A/F...... although there can be issues if really large injectors are used (mostly idle and deceleration issues )

C20GET · Post by **C20GET** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 5:46 pm

Haven't been around in a bit, but wanted to ask if this particular engine has a bolt on trigger wheel for the crank sensor (several from this family do). If so it's possible to replace wheel with "7 notch" style typical of GM 4 cyl engines and use cheap, readily available GM OBDI ecm, DIS ignition module, and tuning software. Saves a bit of cash in the long run.

HTH

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:02 pm

I assume that your refering to the 92+ 2.0L 8V ECU with the DIS setup. (or was it offered in 1991??? I can't remember )

This engine (U20SED) has the same reluctor wheel on the crankshaft just like the 92+ 2.0L 8V DIS engine.... so yes.... it's possible to use that system.

Of course that would mean going to a multiport injection instead of sequential..... but in some ways that's favorable because it allows the use of adjustable cam pullies.

I have quite a bit of info on tuning the C20GET ECU ( mine is distributor based ) but when it comes down to it I am not that familiar with it.

I'm sure a bunch of you guys from the Jbody/LT3 forums have lots of experience..... so that is definitly an option if he doesn't have to worry to badly about meeting emissions testing.

So Danny........ do you have to do emissions testing once in a while down there in Arizona?????

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 8:58 pm

PrecisionBoost wrote: So Danny........ do you have to do emissions testing once in a while down there in Arizona?????

I thought it was after 15years for newer cars but a friend with a 2003 said he has to do emission this year. I need to find this out

C20GET · Post by **C20GET** » Sun Feb 24, 2008 11:15 pm

The U20SED has a unique ecm in the US market. The trigger wheel on the crank and the ignition strategy used with it is (AFAIK) a Bosch derived system which is unlike anything else GM uses here in the US. Because this system was only used from 92 - 94 in a few Pontiac cars, no one has taken the time to work out the calibration. But I'm actually referring to using the distributor based $58 cal from the C20GET, or possibly the $8F calibration used in the 3.1 powered Turbo Grand Prix. With a 7 notch trigger wheel and a DIS system from one of the 4 cylinder US marketed Chevrolet models, it's just a matter of changing 3 values in the $58 calibration to allow it to work with DIS.

You would lose sequential injection which could be an issue for an emissions "sniff" test. You would also lose control of any digital EGR valves or purge solenoids which could affect dyno based missions tests. And if testing includes connecting to the OBDII port and checking for codes, that could be another problem since the OBDI ecm doesn't speak GM's VPW or CAN protocol. I have mentioned on other lists that it would be nice to have a simple box on the end of the OBDII port who's only purpose in life was to communicate with an inspection machine to say "Everything's fine here." But for a car not subject to testing, or for someone who has connections, the OBDI ecm could be a reasonable alternative.

Speaking of OBDII and PCM's it might be interesting to note that the US 2.2l "Ecotec" engine generates a cam sensor signal by determining which cylinder is on the compression stroke based on ignition secondary voltage. No separate sensor needed. These systems also work with the 7 notch DIS system mentioned above.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 4:15 am

So where is the 7 notch trigger wheel located on the DIS based systems? (any pics? curious what it looks like )

I'm curious because I have an older distributor based C20GET in on of my other project cars and I'd love to move over to a DIS setup.

The 60-2 reluctor wheel on the U20SED is also found on the UK/Europe 2.0L engines.... I belive they are all MAF based ( Bosch?? )

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Tue Feb 26, 2008 9:20 am

For the record the SMT-7 works on the U20SED

C20GET · Post by **C20GET** » Sat Mar 01, 2008 4:01 pm

Sorry I didn't get back sooner.

The Chevrolet built engines with DIS use a trigger wheel which is part of the crank. The only 2 deviations I'm aware of were the Rocketparts cranks sold over the counter for showroom stock racing with the quad 4, and the GM Performance Parts crank for current generation US Ecotec engines. It's probably easier to build your own than to try and adapt one of the race versions. I know of one wheel built for the 60 deg Chevy V6 (same number of notches) which can be fastened to the exterior of an engine but I'm not sure how difficult it will be for our OHC.

More info available here: http://www.tcemotorsports.com/

The C20GET and it's N/A cousin, if they were an original engine delivered with the car, have no means to attach a trigger wheel to the crank and no hole in the block for a crank sensor. I have seen new, GM over the counter replacement engines for the turbo application which do have a trigger wheel. If your engine has the trigger, it will have the hole machined in the front of the block (under the Pontiac A/C bracket) for the crank sensor.

DIS would be very nice on these engines. I'm sure you've noticed how sloppy the timing is even with a new timing belt installed. BTW, heres an article which is mostly right regarding the SOHC 2.0 in the US. I'm sure you'll catch the errors regarding the C20GET engine management system.
http://www.enginebuildermag.com/Article ... ngine.aspx