Need info on transmission coolers

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 6:16 am

How do you install them is my main questions? and do you need a pump or anything like that? I just see it being a PITA on the F28 but it's something I'm definitly going to do.

Danny

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:21 pm

One way that's pretty normal is to use the fill plug as a return and tap a feed in the pan... yes you need a pump and preferably a swirl pot/sump.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:24 pm

Audacity Racing wrote:One way that's pretty normal is to use the fill plug as a return and tap a feed in the pan... yes you need a pump and preferably a swirl pot/sump.

Any brand you recommend?

and while your reading this do you know the thread size for the oil filter relocation peice? Mine broke and I didn't keep the box

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:33 pm

This type piece?

Or which thread specifically?

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:38 pm

Also, B&M...
http://www.bmracing.com/index.php?id=pr ... t=&pid=282

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Mon Nov 26, 2007 11:59 pm

Audacity Racing wrote:This type piece?

Or which thread specifically?

Yes, my old setup relocated the fliter and allowed me to add an oil cooler but a friend told me they have kits that allow you to run an oil cooler with the oil filter in the factory spot, I'd perfer the latter one but either would do. I need to thread size/or vehical application for the peice that goes where the filter is. I think I remember it being "GM 14mm" but I'm unsure.

Also are tranny and oil coolers the same? when I search for tranny coolers at summitracing.com all I find is dual coolers. I already have an oil cooler so unless it's really cheap I'd rather just add another for the tranny rather than adding a dual one for both.

Danny

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:12 am

The oil filter thread is 18x1.5mm

Just use a sandwich plate

And yeah... differential fluid is an oil... it's fine in any kind of "oil cooler"

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:16 am

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spectre- ... dZViewItem

Use one of those too

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Tue Nov 27, 2007 12:58 am

Audacity Racing wrote:The oil filter thread is 18x1.5mm

Just use a sandwich plate

And yeah... differential fluid is an oil... it's fine in any kind of "oil cooler"

ohhh, I never knew what a sandwich plate was. haha, thanks

Audacity Racing wrote:http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Spectre- ... dZViewItem

Use one of those too

Wow with that and an oil cooler kit my oils going to stay cold!

Okay so I deceided to just get a dual one and save space and it'll probably be easyier to mount. Providing the measurments fit behind my grill I'm getting this dual oil cooler:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 18&FROM=MG
If it doesn't fit they have two other sizes each smaller than the other.

This sandwich adaptor:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 50&FROM=MG

and this pump:
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetai ... 24&FROM=MG

I already had to order some stuff from summit so this works out pretty well.

Thanks for the help Kenny

exist3nce · Post by **exist3nce** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:39 am

I know tranny coolers are quite common for autos, but is it really necesary for a manual trans? I mean theres no heat-generating slippage going on inside like a torque convertor. Thats not to say it doesn't get hot, but hot to the point it needs its own dedicated cooler? I would think some premium quality MTF should be able to handle any abuse you can throw at your manual transmission, provided the gears don't break from torque LOL.

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 12:48 am

Have to agree with exist3nce, wouldnt an extra pump just be extra drag, and out-weigh the benefits of fitting the cooler? I know removing things such as the A/C pump etc can free up engine revs, as there's less restriction. Assuming the pump'll be similar to the mounting of things like Power steering and A/C pumps.

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 2:45 am

His transmission/LSD combo is the same as 1/4 of a new Forenza...
The LSD generates heat, and lots of it...
Kinky hits speeds most Daewoos can't

Cooling the differential is a key thing to do in race cars... plus the torque rating of the transmission can be upped by doing this. It's also crucial should Kinky be using a high-end friction modifier.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 4:41 am

Audacity Racing wrote:His transmission/LSD combo is the same as 1/4 of a new Forenza...
The LSD generates heat, and lots of it...
Kinky hits speeds most Daewoos can't

Cooling the differential is a key thing to do in race cars... plus the torque rating of the transmission can be upped by doing this. It's also crucial should Kinky be using a high-end friction modifier.

Yeah that's why I'm using it, even if it barleys helps then it's worth it to me just in the fact that if my tranny goes it could be months before I can get ahold of another decent F28. Then the next biggest reason is I do plan on pushing the limit of the F28, and if a cooler allows me to run 10wtq more than I'll be happy.

Hey kenny, any guess on how much more tq an F28 can handle when converted to FWD?

and what the hells a "high-end friction modifier"?

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 6:02 am

There is oil... and then there are friction modifiers.

The difference is that oil serves many purposes typically... lubrication, cooling, force distribution, etc

Friction modifiers only lubricate (or in some cases, add friction). They can breakdown under heat and just be useless. GL4 spec gear oil does NOT contain additional EP's or friciton modifiers (typically)... though GL5 DOES. Based on my knowledge of the f28's internals, GL5 would be a better route for you in the future, especially considering the gear ATB. Wherever hypoid gears are present (sliding and meshing gears like those inside the ATB differentials), GL5 is the way to go.

Also, if you have the cash, Cerobear ceramic bearings (one of my partner/sponsor companies) makes a set of F28 bearings and seals... should get an additional 10 ft-lb at the wheels out of something like that...

I unfortunately have no idea on the tq you'll be able to hold. If you cool appropriately, you can push 15 ft-lbs past what the normal loading is. If you go and cryo your internals and micro-shotpeen them as well you could push an additional 50 ft-lbs total. Add a few ribs and lighten/balance the shafts and barrel and you should be doing real nice (think 100+ over typical loading). After talking with Hewland about the 6 speed in the Lacetti WTCC... it's the same gear set as the F28... just a magnesium casting with rib mountings. You have a potentially stronger transmission (made of a stronger material)... just heavier. All you have to do is tap into the needed mods to pull it off.

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:31 am

I'm not sure about figures of the amount of torque an f28 can handle, but they came as a 4wd box, in 2.0 16v Turbo Cavaliers over here.
So their internals are pretty tough, but the main thing that goes in them are the bearings, the clutch release one especially