Turbo Optra - Now on tuned Haltech @ 225whp

[kroz123]

damn you lucky bastard

btw thanx for the pic of the oil feed & congrats on you victories

Arvin

[Nubira2.2]

$20 on the Optra
LOL

[exist3nce]

To the admins: Can my thread become a sticky like the other turbo threads?

[PrecisionBoost]

To the admins: Can my thread become a sticky like the other turbo threads?

Now sticky.


Good deal on the motor.... I had to bring mine in from the USA to get a good deal.... all the canadian wreckers wanted well over $1000 for the 2.0L motors.

[GsiTurbo]

Nice motor find!!! I'm jealous now, hehe
I am keeping close eye on your buildup, and so far I like it a lot! Keep up good work, and 'the kill' list.

[exist3nce]

Good deal on the motor.... I had to bring mine in from the USA to get a good deal.... all the canadian wreckers wanted well over $1000 for the 2.0L motors.

Yah they varied in price alot from $350 (the cheapest) to $1600. But there were alot of motors to choose from locally (within Ontario). I used the site www.car-part.com , they had alot of listings from different wreckers.

Nice motor find!!! I'm jealous now, hehe
I am keeping close eye on your buildup, and so far I like it a lot! Keep up good work, and 'the kill' list.

Thanks Tom. Couple more to add to the list:

Turbo Optra kill:
Supercharged Acura 1.6 EL @ 8psi

Turbo Optra Loss:
MazdaSpeed6 (I did a little better than the MSP3 though!)

[exist3nce]

We got started on the new clutch tonight................only about 30 mins into it, going to continue tomorrow and should be done by evening.

Also installed a new set of NGK Iridium IX plugs, heat range 8. I had NGK copper plugs heat range 7, but upon recent inspection, they were showing slight signs of running hot, so we went with some better and colder ones.

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/s ... p?mode=nml#

[exist3nce]

Bad news.......

All went well with the clutch install today, and after everything was put back in place, the peddle felt good before we started the car (although harder, which is ok). The car was started and when we released the peddle in neutral, the car stalled out as if it was engaging in gear. We tried 3 times with the same result. So we revved it up a bit (~2000RPM) and tried again, this time it seemed ok and idled fine. Within a couple minutes we could hear this squeaking noise coming from the clutch/transmission accompanied by smoke. We tried to press the clutch peddle again, and it went straight into the floor and didn't return. The fluid was leaking out somewhere.


So we pulled the transmission and clutch out again......... we're pretty shocked.

It appears that the new clutch disc centre (the part that grabs the shaft) is slightly thicker or higher than the stock one (we measured it to be 30/1000 ") and this caused it to push against the slave cylinder with enough force to gauge the top of the cylinder and eventually grab the entire piston and start spinning it with the clutch. As soon as the piston started spinning, the cylinder seal was instantly shredded and the fluid leaked out.

I have some pics here to explain more:

Stock VS Aftermarket Disc


Stock VS Aftermarket Pressure Plate


Pressure Plate and Clutch Installed




DESTRUCTION.........

All the clutch fluid leaked out into the bellhousing


Surface of top of the slave cylinder all gouged and scraped


Center of the clutch disc was responsible for the scoring and scraping, due to the longer than stock length/thickness


After the slave cylinder started spinning, it scored this area against the transmission pretty badly too



Needless to say I'm not happy about this as I now have to buy a new slave cylinder and machine that part on the clutch.

[PrecisionBoost]

That sucks dude..... but I think your missing something here..... that surface that is all scored up should be a thrust bearing.... which means it should have turned freely with the clutch..... which means it should not be scored.

Is it possible that someone screwed it up during installation?? (perhaps someone hit it with a hammer for some unknown reason?? )

If the bearing was damaged and not moving freely it would quickly heat up and cause torque on the seal and eventually stop turning and then start grinding/scorring the surface.

By the pictures where the two clutches are sitting on the desk (taken from the side) the stock clutch looks thicker than the aftermarket clutch.

I will do a dimensional analysis of my clutch vs the other "stock" clutches I have in my garage... are you sure they installed it in the right direction? (I'm assuming that the center section is offset slightly compared to the clutch surface)

These clutches have been used all over the world (quite a bit in the UK ) and I personally haven't heard of anyone having this kind of trouble.

For that matter kinky had his installed for quite a while before he killed the syncros in his tranny.

I belive his master and slave cylinders are also in poor condition ..... but I have to think that has to do with his racing and the fact that a stiffer pressure plate requires more hydraulic force to actuate it.

[kinkyllama]

These clutches have been used all over the world (quite a bit in the UK ) and I personally haven't heard of anyone having this kind of trouble.

For that matter kinky had his installed for quite a while before he killed the syncros in his tranny.

I belive his master and slave cylinders are also in poor condition ..... but I have to think that has to do with his racing and the fact that a stiffer pressure plate requires more hydraulic force to actuate it.

I haven't heard of anything like this either.

Yeah, my syncros are in bad conidtion but still work. My slave cylinder has died twice now, the first time it died I still have the stock clutch though and it was replaced under warranty. This time that it died I let my boss try to learn stick on my car the night before, my gf learn stick on 7 months ago, and put over 35k miles on it.

[PrecisionBoost]

It appears that the new clutch disc centre (the part that grabs the shaft) is slightly thicker or higher than the stock one (we measured it to be 30/1000 ") and this caused it to push against the slave cylinder with enough force to gauge the top of the cylinder and eventually grab the entire piston and start spinning it with the clutch. As soon as the piston started spinning, the cylinder seal was instantly shredded and the fluid leaked out.

I measured the stock clutch vs the aftermarket clutch first thing this morning..... all dimensions of the aftermarket unit are significantly smaller than the stock

I don't know what you guys were measuring but the thickness of the aftermarket center is about 1/8" less than the stock one.... as opposed to 0.030" larger like you said above.

Even the outer diameter is smaller.

What I'm confused about here is the fact that that bearing comes in contact with the fingers of the pressure plate first..... so if the bearing wasn't spinning it should have scored the surface of the pressure plate fingers.

From my point of view everything points to a damaged thrust/release bearing as far as I can see.

[PrecisionBoost]

Tom (Gsiturbo) is sitting next to me and he just made a good point..... if your factory clutch was slipping and creating a significant amount of heat it's quite possible that it may be responsible for the problems with failure of your thrust/release bearing

[Efratech]

im also with the clutch release bearing, but still sounds kinda doggy

i have two years with my clutch (no springs, 4 puck) and havent had a problem... im using a stock pressure plate.

well just a broken transmision after the XE got in.

[exist3nce]

It appears that the new clutch disc centre (the part that grabs the shaft) is slightly thicker or higher than the stock one (we measured it to be 30/1000 ") and this caused it to push against the slave cylinder with enough force to gauge the top of the cylinder and eventually grab the entire piston and start spinning it with the clutch. As soon as the piston started spinning, the cylinder seal was instantly shredded and the fluid leaked out.

I measured the stock clutch vs the aftermarket clutch first thing this morning..... all dimensions of the aftermarket unit are significantly smaller than the stock

I don't know what you guys were measuring but the thickness of the aftermarket center is about 1/8" less than the stock one.... as opposed to 0.030" larger like you said above.

Even the outer diameter is smaller.

What I'm confused about here is the fact that that bearing comes in contact with the fingers of the pressure plate first..... so if the bearing wasn't spinning it should have scored the surface of the pressure plate fingers.

From my point of view everything points to a damaged thrust/release bearing as far as I can see.

Yah everything on the new disc appears to be the same or smaller than the stock one for all other measurements. We think this is a manufacturing error, something that should have been caught by quality control. The centre piece is either a bit longer, or sticking out a bit too far to the side of the slave cylinder. The pressure plate fingers never came in contact with anything, it was only the centre of the disc that was constantly touching the slave cylinder, and then spinning the piston. I have confidence that the two people installing it are doing it right. They have replaced countless clutches and transmissions on other cars and said they have never seen something like this happen.

Another thing that is sort of strange is that a small inner portion of the pads on the flywheel side actually sit within the dish area (maybe 1-2 mm). I can only assume that is because this clutch was never really designed for this car specifically, but rather it just happens to fit more or less.

[exist3nce]

Tom (Gsiturbo) is sitting next to me and he just made a good point..... if your factory clutch was slipping and creating a significant amount of heat it's quite possible that it may be responsible for the problems with failure of your thrust/release bearing

The bearing was perfectly fine when we took the stock unit apart, and the slippage didn't actually look that bad. There were no extreme heat marks on the PP and the flywheel was in surprisingly good condition (didn't even have to be resurfaced). The OEM clutch disc even still had some life left in it, as the pads were not totally worn down yet.