Timing belt 1.6 DOHC Lanos timing question

[Spider]

These questions are for people who has changed a timing belt with good success. As I need some "expert" advice.

Hi,
I am going to replace the timing belt and water pump, tensioner and idler pulley on my new "used" engine before I drop it in my car. Engine=2001 1.6 DOHC Lanos...Car=2000 Lanos dead 1.6 DOHC engine in it now.
I have all the parts now. And the service manual.
The engine is on a bench lots of room to work on it.

Today I removed the timing covers and crankpulley. By then, with the day getting late. I decided to see if I understood the (manual) procedure.
I decided to try to do the "Timing Belt Check and Adjust...1C-28 in the book. Its the same procedure for the new belt and I will be doing that when I have a full (good weather) day with plenty of time to replace the other parts as well.

My first question is:
Regarding the alignment marks:
How "perfect must they be ?
I follow the complete (book) procedure but the alignment marks are never perfect. Close but not perfect. I tried it 4 times.
When I align the bottom mark (/pully/crankshaft gear arrow) with the bottom mark on the lower (inside timing cover) the cams do not line up perfectly. The are about a half a tooth off. I thought when I did the water-pump 'loosen and rotate' procedure this would line things up but I have been getting mixed results. I even tried moving the belt one tooth each way...still not perfect.

Next question:
Is the bottom "mark" on the inside bottom timing cover a "bump" or a "notch" I have both (at the 6 o'clock position, about 1/16" apart...which one is correct ? The book says line-up to the notch. what is the "bump" next to it for ? (this bump is to the right of the notch very close to it.

I have run the complete procedure (this encludes the rotating of the water-pump) but the results are not in perfecft alignment.

It's frustrating and I hope I have described this so it can be understood.

Any help here is greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[MMamdouh]

marks should be perfictly alighned.

the bottom mark is more of an arrow head rather than a notch.

MMamdouh

[Spider]

Thanks MM,

I went back this morning and discovered that the "bump" is just the way the tin back-plate is made. Yes MM, the 'notch' is more like an arrowhead or a small sharp chisel cut in the bottom of the lower back-plate.
I got it right now.
All the camshaft and lower crankshaft gear marks will line up.
thanks, again.

So, I have started. Today I removed almost everything, encluding the back-plate. I ran out of daylight and didn't get the water-pump out yet.

Having the engine on a bench is a great way to do this. I can imagine how much more work is involved if the engine is in the car.

I do have one queston:

Regarding the water-pump seal...
The service manual recomends "LUBRIPLATE" for the O-ring.
I can't locate any. So, I was thinking of using white lithiem grease. I have used this before on 0-rings and even on water pump gaskets.
I think it should be fine. What do you use ?
One parts-store guy told me he has a substitue for lubriplate that is recomened for O-rings.
But it cost $22.00 (USD) for 5 ounces. Way more than I need and way to much money.

Have a good day !

[MMamdouh]

ummmm... when i changed mine i didn't put anything on the O ring, just a little red silicon gasket maker to have extra sealing effect.

whats the purpose of lubricating the O ring anyways? i recont it is just for facilitating the installation process of the ring into the block.

in that case; don't use oil or it will eat up your seal, instead use some rubber friendly lubricant... if white lithiem grease doesn't eat rubber then by all means use it.

MMamdouh

[Spider]

ummmm... when i changed mine i didn't put anything on the O ring, just a little red silicon gasket maker to have extra sealing effect.

whats the purpose of lubricating the O ring anyways? i recont it is just for facilitating the installation process of the ring into the block.

in that case; don't use oil or it will eat up your seal, instead use some rubber friendly lubricant... if white lithiem grease doesn't eat rubber then by all means use it.

MMamdouh

Good !

I have used it before on O-rings before with no problems. As far as I know, it's liquid and rubber friendly stuff. And it keeps the O-ring in it's place. Also will keep it smooth whan the pump is turned. I'm gonna go with it. thanks !

Another question:


I failed to paint-mark the location of the old water-pump before I pulled it out. Than I noted that there are two "C"-shaped notch's in it.

These are on the edge that meets the block. The manual dosen't say anything about them.
If you picture a clock?... One notch would be at about 10 o'clock and the other would be at about 1 o'clock.
Both of these notch's are near the top two (of the three) clamping bolts.

Now I'm wondering which way to set the new pump in the block? As you know its a perfect circle. It will fit in the block any way that its turned.

The section of the pump that the 42mm wrench is used on has two small holes in it.
I'm thinking, maybe point one up and one down on a vertical plain ? hummmmmmmmm.

Maybe none of my worries matter ? Maybe it will all be sorted out when I set the new belt's tension ?
Any Ideas ? I am kicking myself for not putting a mark on the block and one on the pump.

[MMamdouh]

the pump rotation is the source of the tension so the correct position of the pump will be set when you get the marks alighned on the tensioner.

their is no "one correct setting" for the pump location, on every car it could be different but on all cars the tensioner should be at the correct mark and that is set by rotating the pump - thats why it is a perfict circle - so you can't tell whats the correct location till to tension the belt correctly.

MMamdouh

[Spider]

the pump rotation is the source of the tension so the correct position of the pump will be set when you get the marks alighned on the tensioner.

their is no "one correct setting" for the pump location, on every car it could be different but on all cars the tensioner should be at the correct mark and that is set by rotating the pump - thats why it is a perfict circle - so you can't tell whats the correct location till to tension the belt correctly.

MMamdouh

Hi MM,

Yes, I was needlessly concerned.

Everything worked out fine

The way the water pump is designed ? It can't be installed in error.
It only goes one way.. those two "C" notches are in there for a reason. When I installed the backplate tin, everything became apparent.
The three engine block bolt holes, that take the bolts that hold the water-pump secure, can't be accesed unless you position the pump properly.
The pump actually positions it'self !!! Smart design !
Than I went thru the service manual procedure. And I had to read it a couple times to fully understand it.

Sooo, my timing belt job is complete ! All the timing (camshaft and crankshaft) marks line up perfectly. Woooooo-Whoooooo!
Thanks to MM and the service manual. This is not a hard job.
I know it would be more time consuming if it were done in the car. This due to the tight space.

If anyone is thinking of doing it ? I have some advice.
1) don't be in a hurry.. take your time.
2) the crankshaft pulley bolt can not be removed unless you use an air wrench or can figure out a way to lock the crankshaft. (stick shift's in reverse and also held with brakes ?) Automatics? hummmmm ?
3) I didnt need the special water-pump tool. I used vice-grips. But my engine is out of the car, might not be able to use them on a 'in-car' engine.
4) keep everything clean. Use quality parts and its best to replace all the pulleys, adjuster and water-pump along with your new belt. I Think of it as doing myself and my engine a huge favor.
5) if you have any questions ask MM

Thanks MM !


p.s. I still have a lot to do before I get back on the road with my woo. If the weather holds up ? I will soon be pulling the old engine, transfering parts (starter, alternator and A/C).. and than dropping my the new/used engine into my woo..