headers, anyone interested?

Wolf-Spirit · Post by **Wolf-Spirit** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 10:34 am

1.6 lanos is 2" also right?

if you could get me a proper 4-2-1 for a lanos 1.6 M/T i would love to buy it... if it not to pricy

as for then i rather spend a little more on a factory engineerd one

mocpac · Post by **mocpac** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 4:35 pm

nop, lanos pipe is not 2"

Wolf-Spirit · Post by **Wolf-Spirit** » Sat Jun 12, 2004 11:23 pm

? ya sure DVE/HVE says 2" pipes for my car?

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:40 am

the lanos is not a 2" pipe. when i bought my muffler it was a 2.5 so i bought a 2.5 - 2" fitting and it didnt fit it was still to big

my internet is shit so i probably wont be on much in the next few days, {on my laptop right now}

so you guys are saing 2" on the headers size for the lanos??

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 5:09 pm

WooHoo wrote:the lanos is not a 2" pipe. when i bought my muffler it was a 2.5 so i bought a 2.5 - 2" fitting and it didnt fit it was still to big

my internet is shit so i probably wont be on much in the next few days, {on my laptop right now}

so you guys are saing 2" on the headers size for the lanos??

I can email you a chapter from a book on exhaust manifold theory. It'll help you determine primary length and diameter for whatever rpm you want to tune the header for. It's quite big - 5-6mb - so it'll take a while to download but it'll help. Alternately, if you give me a couple of days I can put the equations on an excel spreadsheet so all you'll need to do is put in the parameters you want and it'll give you the dimensions. That should be easier to email to you. Let me know...........

Or you could look on the german Lexmaul site for their manifolds for the C16XE and X16XEL engines and use their one as something to work from.

Stef

daewooluvr · Post by **daewooluvr** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 6:33 pm

Stefan wrote:
WooHoo wrote:the lanos is not a 2" pipe. when i bought my muffler it was a 2.5 so i bought a 2.5 - 2" fitting and it didnt fit it was still to big

my internet is shit so i probably wont be on much in the next few days, {on my laptop right now}

so you guys are saing 2" on the headers size for the lanos??
I can email you a chapter from a book on exhaust manifold theory. It'll help you determine primary length and diameter for whatever rpm you want to tune the header for. It's quite big - 5-6mb - so it'll take a while to download but it'll help. Alternately, if you give me a couple of days I can put the equations on an excel spreadsheet so all you'll need to do is put in the parameters you want and it'll give you the dimensions. That should be easier to email to you. Let me know...........

Or you could look on the german Lexmaul site for their manifolds for the C16XE and X16XEL engines and use their one as something to work from.

Stef

I would be interested in the excel doc as well.

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Mon Jun 14, 2004 8:33 pm

daewooluvr wrote:I would be interested in the excel doc as well.

Ok, give me a couple of days and I'll try and host it or email it to you.

Stef

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Tue Jun 15, 2004 3:42 am

sounds good

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 7:05 pm

Well I've done the spreadsheet. Here it is........

http://www.daewootech.com/docs/exhaust_tuning.xls

I've added a page on injector calculations that may also be handy.

Thanks to Maniac16v for hosting it

Stef

mocpac · Post by **mocpac** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 8:48 pm

One of the guy in the PR Daewoo club put a 2" pipe and the decreace of HB was big. He change the pipe to its original size and the car works great.

Stefan that chart is for lanos right?

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:17 pm

mocpac_ser wrote:Stefan that chart is for lanos right?

The input values in the white cells are for a 2.0L OHC engine with a Kent AST14 cam - I had to use some values so I used ones from my engine.
You'll need to put in the values for your engine. The spreadsheet will work for most types of engines.
I know you need to put in the exhaust cam timing, which makes it a little difficult, but it's as simple as I could get it whilst still being reasonably accurate. I have more advanced books on the subject but I simply don't have the time to put all that math (and you'll need dyno data too so the simulation code can be calibrated!) into a spreadsheet

Stef

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:23 pm

For exhaust cam info you could go onto the Kent Cams website and look at the cams for the Vauxhall 2.0L 16v engine. Choose a 'mild' camshaft and use those timing figures as a bench mark.

Unfortunately tuning engines and getting 'the right combination' does require a bit of experimentation and testing still!

Stef

Post by **Efratech** » Wed Jun 16, 2004 9:26 pm

Stefan wrote:For exhaust cam info you could go onto the Kent Cams website

http://www.kentcams.com/

Mr.Bill · Post by **Mr.Bill** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 10:58 pm

Sorry, but I had to jump in here and say something before you run off and buy loads of steel that you can't do anything with.

I noticed that you mentioned that you had a 3" Pipe Bender, and I almost shrieked in horror! If, it's the hydraulic ram style from like Northern Tool or Harbor Freight, you are going to be in for a suprise when trying to bend tubing.

There's a huge difference between "Tube Benders" and "Pipe Benders", as is the way tube and pipe is measured. Tubing is measured on the O.D., while Pipe is measured on the I.D. Wall thickness is also a consideration as well, and really adds to the weight of a product. Sometimes that's a good thing, but when you want good flow characteristics, I.D. is everything.

If you are seriously considering this project, and really want to get into bending tube, I've got a couple of links of nice benders for a budget minded fabricator.

I don't know how much tube you've attempted to bend in your "pipe bender" but the ram style bend yields a "crush" style bend, which is not what you want at all... I know a decent quality mandrel bender will start out at around $40k

but there are benders that will be good enough for the types of things you are talking about making. They are usually referred to as "Rotary Draw" benders. They still will crush the tube slightly, but uniformly around a matching die without "kinks", but with some good quality TIG welds these should be too much of an issue. But keep in mind when you cut the tube on the bend, (where some crushing action took place) and try to mate it up to a straight piece for welding there will be some "ovaling" that will need to be compensated for.

Now, if you've already got a legit tubing bender and already know all of this, then please forgive my arrogance. I just really wanted to let you know before you made a huge mistake, in which when I first started out I did the same thing.

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Tue Aug 17, 2004 11:47 pm

Mr.Bill wrote:Sorry, but I had to jump in here and say something before you run off and buy loads of steel that you can't do anything with.

I noticed that you mentioned that you had a 3" Pipe Bender, and I almost shrieked in horror! If, it's the hydraulic ram style from like Northern Tool or Harbor Freight, you are going to be in for a suprise when trying to bend tubing.

There's a huge difference between "Tube Benders" and "Pipe Benders", as is the way tube and pipe is measured. Tubing is measured on the O.D., while Pipe is measured on the I.D. Wall thickness is also a consideration as well, and really adds to the weight of a product. Sometimes that's a good thing, but when you want good flow characteristics, I.D. is everything.

If you are seriously considering this project, and really want to get into bending tube, I've got a couple of links of nice benders for a budget minded fabricator.

I don't know how much tube you've attempted to bend in your "pipe bender" but the ram style bend yields a "crush" style bend, which is not what you want at all... I know a decent quality mandrel bender will start out at around $40k but there are benders that will be good enough for the types of things you are talking about making. They are usually referred to as "Rotary Draw" benders. They still will crush the tube slightly, but uniformly around a matching die without "kinks", but with some good quality TIG welds these should be too much of an issue. But keep in mind when you cut the tube on the bend, (where some crushing action took place) and try to mate it up to a straight piece for welding there will be some "ovaling" that will need to be compensated for.

Now, if you've already got a legit tubing bender and already know all of this, then please forgive my arrogance. I just really wanted to let you know before you made a huge mistake, in which when I first started out I did the same thing.

Thanks for all that info. Much appreciated

I've tried to use a ram style tube bender before on roll cages, it was crap, though you could get it to bend okay if you greased the rolls and die....
You can buy pre-fabricated mandrel bends in stainless (for dairy piping - 1.6mm wall thickness) or if doing a turbo header you can use weld elbows like schedule 40 strainless steel.

Stef