Intro, and question

[C20GET]

Intro, and question

In the pursuit of power, I'm working toward replacing the C20GET engine in my Sunbird with something having 4 valves / head. Sure the old 2 valve OHV engine is fun for a while, but you run into some limits. First, they're too torquey for a front wheel drive car. With increased traction hard to find, what's the point of increasing low rpm power? Next, the head doesn't flow worth a darn so high rpm power production has to come from the turbo and higher boost levels. Third, the factory turbo is really a bit small for making high rpm power. Fourth, the final drive ratio is numerically high compared to most FWD NA cars so you have a harder time taking advantage of the GET's torque. GM likes to produce cars that feel faster than they are.

I'm at 17 psi now but I'm just not so excited about upping the boost level. The better answer to me is to increase the flow potential of the head while maintaining the same or slightly less boost, and pick an engine who's natural power curve is a better complement to the drivetrain in the car.

Now the question.

I've spent hours reading old posts and trying to get my head wrapped around the various engines and the alphanumeric codes that represent them. I can't seem to put together a "master list." I've found posts where people throw out the codes expecting the vehicle they come from to be known, and others where people talk about the engine and never mention the code. With the combinations of manufactureres, models, engines, and continents they're used on, it's a bit tricky. Where could I find, or can people help build, a list of this type? I'm thinking something like:

Code: Select all

Engine		Manufacturer		Model		Year(s)	Transmission		Commonly found in	Comments
C20GET 	GM USA (Pontiac)	Sunbird		87-91		M or A			USA and Canada		8V Turbo
C20GET 	GM USA (Pontiac)	Grand Am	87-91		M or A				USA and Canada		8V Turbo
C20XE 	GM Euro? (Opel)	Kadette GSI										Europe				16V Performance

Hopefully the formatting works.
Anyway, any additions are welcome. I can always keep working at it on my own if this is the type of info that only the Daewoo Guru's can know.

Thanks.

[daewoomofo]

if your gonna replace your C20GET id be interesed in geting it from you, where exactally are you from?

[PrecisionBoost]

Hello C20GET, I have a couple of C20GET's so I know what your talking about with respect to the flow rates up past 15psi.

Here is the decode chart for the engines.



Now..... what you should look for is a Daewoo 16V head as they are fairly decent and easy to come by in the USA.

Most of the info is easy to figure out

C = No emissions in particular
X = Euro Emissions
T = TLEV Emissions
U = ULEV Emissions
Z = ?? Euro Emissions

I will build on your list...

C20LET GM EURO Astra,Cavalier(UK),Calibra, Vectra Older engine 16V 2.0L Turbo
Z20LET GM EURO Multiple Vauxhall/Opel Newer engine 16V 2.0L Turbo ( C20LET repalcement.... similar to X20XEV )
Z20LEH same as above
X20XEV GM EURO Multiple Vauxhall/Opel Newer engine 16V 2.0L N/A ( C20XE replacement )
T20SED Daewoo Nubira and Leganzas outside of USA Newer engine 16V 2.0L N/A ( very close cousin of the X20XEV )
U20SED Daewoo/Chev Chev Optra,Optra5 Suzuki Forenza, Reno Newest engine 16V 2.0L N/A ( slightly updated from T20SED )

Honestly..... there are another couple dozen engines that can go on this list but these are the important ones

If you take your C20GET bottom end and slap on an X20XEV/U20SED/T20SED 16V head you will certainly get more power at the expense of torque.

This has allready been done.... some of us use to hang out on a sunbird/grand am based LT3 site ( LT3 = GM RPO for C20GET) and there was one fellow who replaced his C20GET with a T20SED.

I'm trying to remember his name... not sure.... I think the net result was 236whp at 12psi... can't remember torque..... somewhere fairly close to HP numbers.

So yes.... it makes less torque and moves everything up the powerband.

Now having said that..... there are Cast 8V turbo manifolds available for use with a nice sized T3 turbo.... I have one on order and it should be here in a few weeks if all goes well (from a land far far away)

I still think that the C20GET is a decent engine..... I belive the major restriction is in the intake tubing, throttle body and intake manifold.

The head itself should be able to handle some really decent power numbers based upon flow bench readings from a ported 8V head.

As for torque.... well if you have a decent sized T3/T4 hybrid like I have... the torque should be pushed into the back of the RPM band towards 4K/5K RPM.

I was thinking about using the 8V naturally aspirated intake but I know someone that has this planned allready so I think I will fabriacte my own intake.

I just bought a brand spanking new Miller Tig welder.... very nice.... should be able to make all kinds on nice aluminum pieces with it.

I also have a lathe and a milling machine so I really want to try making velocity stacks to increase the efficency of the intake system.

[PrecisionBoost]

Oh..... I almost forgot..... your C20GET really isn't a GM USA engine.... I'm pretty sure it was from a Brazil engine plant.

And all the 2.0L engines come from the Port Melbourn Holden Engine plant..... so they technically aren't Daewoo engines.... they are Holden engines.

Currently Daewoo Korea does make some of the engines but they are the smaller displacement engines such as the 1.4L and 1.6L

[C20GET]

Thanks!

You know, there's probably more technical content on this list than most of the others I check out.

daewoomofo, thanks for the offer. I won't commit to selling the engine right now. Knowing the speed I work at and how many projectes I've already got going, it's a little early to do that. And I think the engine I assemble will have to be a hybrid of parts from 'Woo and Sunbird so there may not be much left of the original engine when I'm done.

Chris, that code breakdown is cool. I haven't seen that before. That definitely helps.

Yep, the GET engine is commonly called a "Brazillian" engine. I listed it as USA since that's where it's most commonly found. Saves someone in another country from looking for one in the local wrecking yard.

The entire flow path of the 8V engine needs help. The exhaust manifold outlet is too small (I have a stocker with a T3 flange and a 1.8 manifold), the throttle body is too small, and the ports aren't all that great. More boost helps for sure, but I've got a self imposed limit of about 20 psi. The 8V NA intake is pretty much the same, but the throttle body is larger. The fuel rail is reversed (inlet and outlet on opposite sides). And it doesn't say "Turbo" on it, which has to cost something in the power department. The larger TB does help. Sounds like you'll be in the intake business before long, with the tools you've got.

The Daewoo swap was done by PontiacJeff. It was definitely a neat swap, but I'm not interested in building a belt driven distributor like he did. I think there's another solution.

I'll keep watching the papers for a cheap 'Woo. Maybe I'll find a wrecked one or rusty one (here in New Hampshire everything rusts). I figure with the entire engine, I'll have any of the little extra parts I'll need for a trouble free swap.

[MMamdouh]

is that the C20GET??


MMamdouh

[PrecisionBoost]

Yes...... that is the C20GET.... is that Tom's GSi Turbo???

[MMamdouh]

no idea... i just found this pic in my archive.

MMamdouh

[C20GET]

Yeah, that's definitely the GET, and it's definitely not in a Sunbird. The upper radiator hose and prolly radiator is 'Bird stuff. The engine looks relatively close to stock bird on the outside. But everything around it is all wrong. lol.

[GsiTurbo]

is that the C20GET??


MMamdouh

Thats my motor!!!! Well, used to be as it is right now in many pieces