Lanos Supercharger Potential

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 11:48 pm

I know that a lot of people have toyed with the idea of putting a turbo on their Lanos, but I was wondering, wouldn't a supercharger be a more logical choice?

A couple of weekends ago, I took off my compressor since it stopped working, and I realized that the original location of the compressor is perfect to bolt on a supercharger. It is extremely close to the fender intake, relatively close to the TB intake, and the location is perfect to run a V-Belt from the old AC pulley. It also would give plenty of clearance from the exhaust manifold and the radiator. It would also be really close to an oil supply, should it need one.

I know that I am a complete newb when it comes to forced induction, and that I have no plans whatsoever to turbo or supercharge my current Lanos, but from that viewpoint, it seems more logical and economical to do than a full turbo setup. You wouldn't need an intercooler, you wouldn't need a new exhaust manifold, you wouldn't need extreme bending of the intake pipes, of course you would lose AC, but you wouldn't have to go through the trouble of tossing out the condensor to install a new radiator and radiator fans to get clearance. From a sheer economical point of view, it seems that it would cost a lot less.

I could be completely wrong, but I have aspirations of getting one more low mileage 5 spd. Lanos in the future and I was just considering my options. Would this idea be feasible and more economical than a turbo. Also, what sort of supercharger would be best to use.

Thanks!

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:14 am

yeah i thought the same thing.. but when i went to price the vortex type supercharger that you would need, thats when i changed my mined

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 12:39 am

other problem is that there would be way more tubing... because the intake is on the passenger side (same side as possible compressor), running to an intercooler would make for tons and tons of tubing

. you would need to run the tubing to the driver's side to go into the IC, then back out the passenger side to go up to the tb...

cost is a big thing too

if we could get ahold of an eaton or roots type blower... that has some serious potential!

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:04 am

But would you truly need an intercooler? Especially if you were running small amounts of boost (5-9 psi). I can't be sure, but some of the Vortec setups I've seen on I4's ang V6's completely left out the intercooler. Would it really make so much difference?

LoL, expecting some Air Temperature vs. Pressure vs. Power graph or chart.

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:11 am

i guess you could get away with ambient air temp for charge... but bear in mind that a votec and a turbo use basically teh same principle for moving air and have very similar compressor maps. so it's the same as a turbo at 6psi without an intercooler. you could do it, but safety becomes an issue (imo)

woo · Post by **woo** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 2:54 am

why not use an eaton setup off a toyota mr2. Ive seen them used on FJ20's and Sr20s, 20valves and all sorts of different motors. That would be the most logical way to do it in my mind

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:30 am

woo wrote:why not use an eaton setup off a toyota mr2. Ive seen them used on FJ20's and Sr20s, 20valves and all sorts of different motors. That would be the most logical way to do it in my mind

@ Woo:

Well the reason I proposed this Vortec type setup is because of the greatest simplicity and economy, it would mount in the stock compressor location and be close to all of the necessary workings. Getting an Eaton style charger would require insane amounts of cost and work. It has been done on the Lanos Howler, but thats way more advanced than I'd like to go. If I were to go eaton, I'd have to do a 100% redesign of the intake system. I would have to find the right supercharger, cut off its head mounts, weld the head mounts from the Lanos intake, completely reverse the throttle body setup to be on the other side of the engine because all of the belts are on the left side, and I would have to find a new intake hole, because I like the sleeper look and cutting louvres in the hood isn't an option.

@ Kenny:

What exactly are the safety issues in an intercooler-free system? Initially I thought that the intercooler was simply to cool the air to gain full use of the power, but would leaving it out leave me prone to running lean or detonation?

Also, rather than the full front dam intercooler, would the small obscure intercooler system of the Volkswagens work? The Passat 1.8T has an intercooler sort of on the top of the wheel well on the driver's side of the engine, and it is much smaller than your average aftermarket cooler. Would it be efficient enough at 9 psi if I were to use this smaller intercooler and mount it vertically inside the bumper (behind the fog light hole, where the resonator used to be, and where the CAI system runs) of the Lanos? The intercooler from the VW would fit inside the large opening, but do you think it would get enough airflow to be efficient enough.

Sorry for the newb questions guys, but I the idea is fairly plausible and would lead to a very fast sleeper 'Woo.

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:44 am

the temp caused by compression of the air can lead to pre-detonation as well. the more efficient the intercooler, the better power, but by the same token if you don't use one at all, you get seriously high intake temps.

you could use a water injection or similar cooling system. as for the vw intercooler... i really don't know. i guess it depends on the efficiency of the ic in the first place.

as for the eaton thing... it wouldn't be as much work as you think

1. remove top portion of VGIS
2. remove internals of VGIS
3. make mounting plate to match up to the SC and the lower portion of the VGIS (a little fabrication, but not bad at all)
4. relocate battery to trunk (everyone should do that anyway)
5. run intake tubing to driver's side fog light (fender well)
6. attach belts and go

eaton makes a couple SC's that would work for our cars actually, it really depends on the pulley you eneded up using. the nice thing about eaton type SC's is that there compressor maps are near linear... that is to say they are predictable without doing tons of math, you can just look at the single line on the graph. you can specify which direction you would like the supercharger to spin when you buy it, so that's not a problem either.

vortecs are harder to do as far as fabrication, tuning, and cost... where as the eaton is harder to do in over-all setup. it's not hard to do... just a lengthy build

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 3:45 am

Audacityracing wrote:other problem is that there would be way more tubing... because the intake is on the passenger side (same side as possible compressor), running to an intercooler would make for tons and tons of tubing . you would need to run the tubing to the driver's side to go into the IC, then back out the passenger side to go up to the tb...

cost is a big thing too

if we could get ahold of an eaton or roots type blower... that has some serious potential!

i think this would make for less tubing then a turbo... if you had the virtical intercooler rather then a horizontal one.. you could have the charger go right into the bottom with a 5 inch pipe then have it come out at the top.. and then into the intake

chronoti · Post by **chronoti** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:26 am

BosnianLanos wrote:
woo wrote:why not use an eaton setup off a toyota mr2. Ive seen them used on FJ20's and Sr20s, 20valves and all sorts of different motors. That would be the most logical way to do it in my mind
@ Woo:

Well the reason I proposed this Vortec type setup is because of the greatest simplicity and economy, it would mount in the stock compressor location and be close to all of the necessary workings. Getting an Eaton style charger would require insane amounts of cost and work. It has been done on the Lanos Howler, but thats way more advanced than I'd like to go. If I were to go eaton, I'd have to do a 100% redesign of the intake system. I would have to find the right supercharger, cut off its head mounts, weld the head mounts from the Lanos intake, completely reverse the throttle body setup to be on the other side of the engine because all of the belts are on the left side, and I would have to find a new intake hole, because I like the sleeper look and cutting louvres in the hood isn't an option.

@ Kenny:

What exactly are the safety issues in an intercooler-free system? Initially I thought that the intercooler was simply to cool the air to gain full use of the power, but would leaving it out leave me prone to running lean or detonation?

Also, rather than the full front dam intercooler, would the small obscure intercooler system of the Volkswagens work? The Passat 1.8T has an intercooler sort of on the top of the wheel well on the driver's side of the engine, and it is much smaller than your average aftermarket cooler. Would it be efficient enough at 9 psi if I were to use this smaller intercooler and mount it vertically inside the bumper (behind the fog light hole, where the resonator used to be, and where the CAI system runs) of the Lanos? The intercooler from the VW would fit inside the large opening, but do you think it would get enough airflow to be efficient enough.

Sorry for the newb questions guys, but I the idea is fairly plausible and would lead to a very fast sleeper 'Woo.

what he talking about the mr2 supercharger is a roots' style blower but not made by eaton the only eaton superchargers for the toyota engine are the 1mz (camry v6) the 5vz (v6 4 runner) the 2uz (v8 tundra) and a stright 6 (forgot the engine code). but the toyota charger he talking about is called the sc14 made for the 1.6l 4a-gze, this can be adapted easy on the a series toyota engine (includes the 7a and the 20v 4a) since they all use the same intake. also there is a sc18 that was used on the 2tz-fze (preva (minivan)) that had a 2.4l engine.

i would love to see one of these chargers on a woo and it would be the easiest set up.

why?
all you need to do is remove the intake manafold and make an adapter plate and run the belt up. and blam you have a clutch controlled supercharger, no having to take out the ac or anything it replaces the stock manfold. i dont know how hard the plate making would be (i can say it wount be cheap) but it can be done easier than trying to cram a vortec in that thight space where the ac was, also vortecs run hot you wouldnt want water splashing on it or else you keep cracking $2500 superchargers.

and what your talking about is a TMIC (top mount intercooler) they were used on the JDM 3s-gte by toyota as well, the are a small intercooler that sit on top the engine, or also you can use a water to air cooler.

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Tue Jan 31, 2006 7:34 am

i wasnt talking about a top mount... ill show you when i get mine done.. if i ever get mine done...

Slammed · Post by **Slammed** » Wed Feb 01, 2006 3:51 am

You mean like this ??

Oh and heres the link LOL http://superstreetonline.com/featuredvehicles/19538/

Slammed · Post by **Slammed** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 1:02 am

No comments on my post??

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 2:10 am

LoL, sorry. Yes, thats what I was thinking when someone mentioned the Eaton type superchargers on the MR2. As you can see in that pic of the Lanos Howler, the entire engine bay is redesigned, and the throttle body is on the wrong side!. I think if I were to do that much redesign and prep work, I would just go with a turbo.