Alignment problems... HELP!

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 10:28 pm

i got an alignment today and the car now holds a straight line without wondering however i noticed that the car pulls to the left under hard braking... is that related to the alignment?? i mean can the car be well sorted on the road yet get messed up under braking?

i know pulling under braking is a brakes problem but why only happens after the alignment?? need your advice guys.

MMamdouh

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Sat Nov 26, 2005 11:02 pm

i'd say that your brakes need to re-bed...

they bed according to yoru old alignment... so now that the wheels are back stright, when you brake they are pulling to their original points

that logically makes sense anyway... as cheap as they are... get new pads and see if that helps?!

ChiPPy · Post by **ChiPPy** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 12:45 am

Probably a bad caliper, or it could be air in the brake lines. If you got a full alignment, they would have checked your brakes as part of that service. If you got a cheap alignment, they probably only made sure your wheels were all pointing straight.

If it's pulling to the left, it might be a seized right caliper, making the left caliper grab stronger, causing the pull to the left. It could also be the tires, but seeing as you just got four new ones, I don't think they are the problem.

ricemill · Post by **ricemill** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 1:36 am

I to would check the caliper sounds like its sticking

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 7:11 am

thanks for the tips guys... apparently you are all pointing to the brakes rather than the alignment job, i also think that the alignment got nothing to do with brakes... if the alignment was bad why would it only show under braking anyways?

also a sticky left caliper might be a good explanation... my left pads are always worn more than the right ones so it can be the reason.

again i am asking: this pulling issue got nothing to do with the alignment job... right?

MMamdouh

ChiPPy · Post by **ChiPPy** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 2:46 pm

I would look at the right caliper, not the left. If the right caliper is siezed or sticking, it will not work as well as the left caliper, and when you apply your brakes, the left will grab better than the right, causing a pull to the left. If your left pads are worn more than the right, then this would support the fact that the right caliper is needing fixing. I'm pretty sure it's not your alignment.

The reason it might be showing up more now, is because your tires are all new, and perfectly round. where as your old tires are probably worn in a way to compensate for the bad brakes. Were your old tires worn more on one side of the tire?

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:02 pm

the more i think about it.... the more i'm thinking it to be air in the right caliper or lines right there with it. this would cause less braking ability, but not cause total loss of braking on one side (as a stuck caliper would).

the reason i say a stuck caliper would cause for a "zero-braking" scenario is that in order for it to only grip a little bit means that it can indeed move, and if you stood on the brake pedal i'm sure it would pop out. the other reason i say that is that if it was stuck stiff enough to re-route pressure to the left side of the car, i think you would notice the pulling caused by the stuck caliper not only during braking, but under normal driving as well.

i hope that made sense

ChiPPy · Post by **ChiPPy** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 3:28 pm

Yes, this could be true as well. At least we agree it's a problem with the right caliper anyway.

I had a "sticky" caliper on my Sunfire, and although it did not cause a huge pull, it did pull enough to notice. The caliper would still travel in and out, but not fully, just enough to grab, but not completly. It ended up being debris stuck in the cylinder wall, and I just replaced the caliper, well actually both, because I didn't want to do the same job again, six months later.

Other things you could try would be to service the calipers moving parts, lube everything up nice, and see if anything is sticking or tight. This is a free thing you could try before spending any more money. Some times all it needs is some TLC.

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:04 pm

ok... it is a problem with the right caliper then huh? i guess i will need some brakes job.

i am going to start with a brake line bleed or even a flush and use DOT4 brakes fluid... the question is how to lube the caliper, i know what to lube but with what?? should i soak the whole thing in WD 40 or something? or just use grease on the pins? i wanna lube the piston itself so i need to know what to use on it.

also i never notice any problems in tires (one worn more than the other) as i swap my tires every 5000 Kms so all my 4 tires are eually worn... the left pads are always more worn than the right ones though.

MMamdouh

ChiPPy · Post by **ChiPPy** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:55 pm

Just go to your local parts place, they'll be able to give you what you need. Usually it's a high heat type of grease. I just ask for brake caliper grease. Do not use WD40 though, because that will wash away all the "good" grease that your calipers need, and although it works great to begin with, you'll end up with even more problems than before, so you want a proper brake grease. WD40 is only ever good for losening rusted bolts and things like that, it's lubricating properties are not strong enough for most automotive applications. Lube all the guide pins and any moving parts. Hopefully that fixes your problem. I just realised too, your new tires are wider, giving you more grip when braking, so any brake issues will show up more so now than with your old tires.

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Nov 27, 2005 11:27 pm

i can to that that my car used to pull a little to the right before the alignment so i guess the miss alignment and brakes issue equalize each other so i felt nothing before.

i guess i have to make the car pull to the right to sort the brakes issues... i will end up with bald tires though

i was going to use the WD 40 for cleanup and loosining the pins and claiper piston only... i was not going to use it as the main lubricant... i know it is too fluid and thinn to be used as a lubricant given the amount of work and heat produced by the brakes.

BTW i couldn't find any caliper grease here so i am using regular grease... i know it is dangerous but their is nothing i can do, if someone from Egypt can point me to a shop that sells caliper grease - that doesn't cost an arm and a leg - please help me out.

thank you Chippy , Audacityracing and all you guys for helping me out so far.. i am glad i am part of this community

MMamdouh

ChiPPy · Post by **ChiPPy** » Mon Nov 28, 2005 12:37 am

Try asking at an auto parts store, what they sell for brake calipers. It may not be called caliper grease, but they should know what you're talking about. I might be called high temp grease, or high pressure grease, or something like that. I wouldn'y use regular grease, because it will probably burn off too quickly.

As for the help, it's my pleasure. It's because of communities like this, that I know a lot of the stuff I do. When people come together to help each other out, everybody learns somthing.

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 9:12 pm

sorry i have to reopen this issue but i got new evedence...

yesterday i noticed that the car pulls to the right under hard acceleration... i didn't accelerate hard with my new tires untill yesterday (don't wanna burn rubber just yet) and i saw the steering wheel turning right... now i can tell this is not a brakews issue it is a suspension/steering issue.

i remebred that the guy messed with the top mount of the left front shock absorber so i poped the hood to day and found that the left strut brace is mounted backwards

yes backwards if any of you poped his lanos' hood he will notice a little gap between the hole in the chassis and the protrusion of the strut... on your cars the gap is in front towards the radiator on both struts, i have it in the front on the right strut and on the back towards the firewall on the left.

look at the pic to see the gap i mean:

that means (as i think) that my left strut is a bit in front of the right one making it further from the steering rack and hince require that the left steering arm be longer than the right one to keep the wheels aligned.

OK that might have been to hard to understand so lets take it step by step:

1- left strut moved forward 10mm or so.
2- the steering column behind the strut is now further away from the strut compared to the right one.
3- left wheel now points to the left as its steering arm can't compansiate for the extra difference so it coveres that by tilting the wheel to the left (thus making the tie rod connection point closer to the steering rack).
4- to keep the car aligned we have to make the left arm longer by unscrewing the tie rod adjstment bar a little bit... now the car is perfictly aligned as long as the suspension is static ( i have that on constant speed).

i hope now my point is clear...

now under hard braking or hard acceleration the suspension is too compressed or too depressed respectivly and thus makes the steering arm length difference more apparent as the longer arm doesn't tilt the wheel as much as the short one so the car steers on its own during those particular situations.

now... did any one heare abot this strut turning thing before during an alignment?? 'cause if not then the guy that did this is a MOFO and needs a good ass kicking for messing up my car.

also is my theory valid? i can clearly see that the left strut is now advanced than the right one and that can't be right at all... the thing is when i run this theory in my mind i see that the right wheel should be the one tilting too much and thus shoud pull to the right under acceleration and braking as well.

can someone give advice here? i am it is too complicated but i am trying to figure it out... i am going to get the brace to its origonal position tomorrow for sure and i am going to get the alignment rechecked at some other shop... do you guys agree on that?

MMamdouh

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:14 pm

after reading the measurments sheet i got from the alignent shop i see that i before the messing up i got +2.21 & 2.27 degrees of caster on left and right wheels which is acceptable compared to the 2.45 degree mark with a 1.00 degree allowed difference... now i know the guy is a rip off, don't you think??

MMamdouh

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Tue Nov 29, 2005 10:42 pm

yeah... that sounds like a ripoff. too bad you can't align it yourself.