propane injuction lanos as a dual fuel vehicle?

[tango]

Yeah, the coal thing is true. To separate water into its separate parts, they use power from burning coal, which is copius in pollutants. Just heating it won't do anything expect make water vapor. I don't think that solar energy would be efficient enough to produce enough pure hydrogen for the world. Sun power is unreliable, which is why most of our electricity still comes from coal burning power plants.

Bosnian....not a single power plant in Jamaica runs off coal my friend. Thus NONE of our electricity comes from coal. And just so we are clear, hydrogen is not extracted from water using power from coal. It's extracted using an electric current passed through an ionised solution of water. This electric current can come from anywhere, not just from coal burnt in a steam turbine.

Electric Hybrids are the best thing we have so far. Yes they are slow, yes they are complicatedly computerized, but they are worth the money. I'm sure the battery packs will dry up, but engines and transmissions also blow up, and people replace them. At 60 MPG I will take that chance

When they break how much will they cost to repair and who will repair them? Do you think Honda and Toyota give a crap about us when this happens? They set their price and if you can't afford it screw you, go buy a Daewoo!

Sure you have to replace the batteries ever couple of years but the savings in gasoline and regular engine maintinence is fairly significant

Batteries, like memory in computers, are the weakest link. They are expensive and are at present exceedingly inefficient. That's why manufacturers are half-stepping on the technology. Trying to bamboozle us into thinking hybrids are so great.

All vehicles will end up being electric one day

I sincerely hope not.

So far the best hyrdrogen is made from carbon and it's electricly charged to attract the molecules to a center electrode

Erfinder...what are you saying here my brother?!? Hydrogen CANNOT be made from carbon. Hydrogen is an element, as is carbon. What you are proposing here is some SERIOUS nuclear fission! For those curious, this is the breaking apart of the nucleus of an element so creating a new (less dense) nucleus and thus a new element. Small elements such as carbon, cannot be made to undergo fission either.
And on top of that...what centre electrode are you talking about?
This needs some attention.

[BosnianLanos]

Well, I'm not just talking out of my ass, CNN and a few other networks have had alternate-energy documentaries that show that Hydrogen is extracted using coal power. I wouldn't keep thumping an idea that I wasn't sure of or knew was wrong. Production of hydrogen does cause pollution. Coal=electric generator=breaking the hydrogen bonds in water to create H and O2.

I don't understand why you are so hell-bent against electric hybrids, hate them or not, Toyota and Honda make some of the best engines in the world regardless of your or our affiliation with German and other European makes. I'm sure Toyota and Honda wouldn't risk their reputation over selling fautly vehicles as a cop-out. And yes, Erfinder is right, testing shows that hybrid engines are super reliable even at very high mileage.

I don't know what fuel they use in Jamaican powerplants, but here they use coal. They don't use wind or sun because they are unreliable and they don't use petroleum products because it is too damn costly. There is a nuclear reactor up in Crystal River. No natural gas that I know of yet.

Frankly, if given a choice I would never give up my gasoline powered cars. But with gas soon hitting $3.00 a gallon and more, I could care less what I drove as long as it saved money, electric or even gerbil powered.

Also, what makes you think that trying to repair a electric hybrid is so damn hard? I've seen cutaway views and all it is is a generator bolted to an engine, it isn't quantum physics, any mechanic who can use a torque wrench can switch it out, but it probabally won't die very soon. Why do you constantly hate on Toyota and Honda, when all dealer service is the same, with Daewoo service centers sucking the worse. Also, our cars are not the most reliable beasts ever either.

Basically, all you are offering are opinions, when the true facts are that Hydrogen production does cause pollution and hydrogen is expensive and not too reliable or readily available now. Gas electric hybrids are reliable and efficient and will probabally be the new wave of cars as we switch to whatever else there is.

[tango]

Listen Bosnian, what you are not understanding is how hydrogen is produced. It is not COAL that is used to produce hydrogen. Hydrogen is produced by an electrical process. The electricity produced in your area may be produced by burning coal in a steam turbine. But other places in the world, like Jamaica, we use diesel generators. Any method of electricity generation will be stressed by hydrogen production. It is also hypocritical to say that electric cars don't contribute to pollution. Plug that Toyota Electro2000 into a home or work outlet for it to charge and it will put a strain on the local grid just the same.

Opinion you say? My FACTS are backed up by years of chemistry study my friend, not buy sitting and listening to moron CNN presentors reading telepromptors. The SAME CNN that gave a report on the underground white slave trade in Jamaica. I'd watch BBC if I were you...

[BosnianLanos]

Yes dude, I know that you need electricity to split apart the hydrogen and oxygen bonds, I was a higher level Chemistry student.

But where do you think they get the electricity from, HARNESSING LIGHTING?!

It is coal power via steam that is used to GET ELECTRICITY from generators and the very same electricity is transported via high voltage lines to our own houses will be used in the electrical process of producing pure hydrogen.

You guys use diesel generators? DIESEL GENERATORS POLLUTE TOO!!!

I never said anything about electric hybrid cars not polluting, but the pollution is less than gas and diesel cars.

[kinkyllama]

When they break how much will they cost to repair and who will repair them? Do you think Honda and Toyota give a crap about us when this happens? They set their price and if you can't afford it screw you, go buy a Daewoo!

They have trained people for that.. i was going to go to UTI and if you go to any of the programs (like the honda one) you have to learn how to work on ALL there cars

[PrecisionBoost]

OOPS.... I should read what I post before hitting submit.... the best hydrogen storage container is made from carbon

Basicly the exterior of the carbon container is positively charged and the center is negatively charged (If I remember correctly)

Hydrogen is usually positively charged and is attracted to the negative center section.... while being repelled by the positively charged exterior case.

[PrecisionBoost]

As far as cost.... the electric motors can be replaced inside of 15 minutes and cost between $1000 USD to $2000 USD

This is far cheaper than replacing a dead gasoline engine.

As far as batteries are concerned..... the sprial cell lead acid technology has made for more reliable, longer running batteries that last twice as long as the old batteries.

Batteries are EXTREEMLY EFFICENT the power you put into them is allmost exactly the power you get out.... they have a very low internal resistance.... some battries have peak efficencies in the range of 98%

And hydrogen can be made from any Hydrocarbon including Coal...not all hydrogen has to come from electrolysis... in fact Electrolysis is one of the least efficent methods of hydrogen production... I took Petroleum Engineering at the University of Alberta.... I have lots of Chemistry, Thermodynamics and Physics knowledge.

I'm also an Electronics Engineering Tech. so I've done research papers on Superconductors, Batteries and Fuel Cells so please try to keep that in mind when coming up with "FACTS" as you put it

The pure and simple fact is that electric systems are two to three times more efficent than a gasoline engine.

Any way you cut it they are better for the environment.

Perhaps you don't realize this but a good portion of the electricity is captured during braking.

As well power generation facilities run as efficently as they can so there is less polution per quantity of energy.

While your car is using 20% to 30% of the energy Gasoline has to offer a good CO-GEN plant is pumping power out at efficencies aproaching 80%

[TheGreatAndPowerfulOz]

Coal is not the only means of electrical power production.
There are many places, like where I live, that use nuclear power.
Also, wind generators, like I saw in Texas and Oklahoma, are used, as are water turbines and solar panels.

All of those are clean power producers.

[BosnianLanos]

Nuclear power is the only one that doesn't air pollute but people don't want it because they think it is too "risky. Nuclear powerplants basically use thermal and ground pollution. They release hot water into nearby rivers and then have to get rid of the highly radioactive leftovers from the reactor

Solar and Wind Power right now only supplement other forms of power such as coal, nuclear, and gas. They can't stand alone because man has learned long ago not to rely on the weather

Water power is the efficient but most places don't have access to a large enough river or waterfall. Scientists are now working in the North Atlantic with ocean generated energy by utilizing the tides to spin underwater generators, but it is still only in the testing process.

Gas power is also very efficient and evo-friendly, but again people don't want the risk of it blowing up, even if there is a small chance.

One can not argue that coal, which is plentiful and not volatile is not the most widely used source to produce electrical energy. Most places in the world use coal even though it is the most dangerous to the environment.

[KnightWalace]

Coal is not the only means of electrical power production.
There are many places, like where I live, that use nuclear power.
Also, wind generators, like I saw in Texas and Oklahoma, are used, as are water turbines and solar panels.

All of those are clean power producers.

"In Todays news, the New Honda Nuke, a zappy little Nuclear powered car wrecked, taking out the entire west coast and some of canada. Currently they're under recall for a weak Nuclear holding cell."

[PrecisionBoost]

Nuclear power is safe when the plants are kept in good working order.

The "nuclear waste" you talk of comes out of mine sites all over the world.

So how can you be "pollute" the ground when that's where it came from in the first place.

I have allways been confused as to why people think radioactive waste is a bad thing..... news flash.... the local playground at your elementry school contains Uranium and a couple dozen other radioactive elements.

Radioactive minerals are everywhere.... they are in the cement floors in your house... they are in the bricks that make up your house.... they are everywhere.

Before you start saying I don't know what I'm talking about...... 80% of my companies business is in selling Radioactive goods for use in the field of industrial radiography ( they X-Ray pipe welds to ensure they are safe)

I deal with Iridium and Uranium on a daily basis.

Radiation is misunderstood.... it's just high energy light..... think of microwaves but with more power.... the power to go right through you.

Every star in this universe is a giant nuclear fission reactor.... it's the reason we have life.

Every second of every day you have high energy radiation passing through you.... through the earth... through some dude in China and back out into the universe.... they are called "cosmic rays"

The wavelenght of this high energy light (gamma radiation) is so small that it doesn't hit anything.... it's smaller than the atoms in your body.

So.... a cosmic ray can pass right through you without touching a single atom in your body.

Anyways.....this post is really really getting off topic from "where do I get a propane conversion"

[BosnianLanos]

Well, if you don't mind it, call some of the Nuclear companies and tell them that you can store the radioactive byproduct in your backyard. I'm sure you'd get a nice kickback.

Yes, radioactive material is pulled from the earth but it is then refined making it highly radioactive and thereby damaging to humans. If it was so harmless, why do you think that the Cherynobl disaster killed so many humans and animals either outright or throughout the years.

[PrecisionBoost]

Do you know what refined means?

Simply stated they separate the different types of Uranium and use the "good stuff " in the reactors.

Here is the natural abundance of Uranium....

U-238 --> 99.27%
U-235 --> 0.72 %
U-234 --> 0.0055%

Basicly they take the U-235 out of the ore and use it in the reactor.

The U-238 is "depleted" Uranium which is what they use in the tank buster rounds.... it's only slightly radioactive.... my company uses it as radiation shielding to block the gammarays from Iridium 192 radiation sources.

So no matter how you cut it.... the amount of U-235 they take out of the earth is exactly the amount that is left over.

Given they cause it to react at a much higher rate than natural (by gathering it all together to create a critical mass) it actually makes the earth a safer place to be..... they are converting the highly radioactive U-235 into a "waste" material which is not very radioactive.

Would I feel safe about them putting it my back yard???

Sure.... as long as the correct procedures were used I would have no problem.

Cherynobl was an example of how irrisponsible use and improper maintinence of an old reactor can cause massive environmental damage.... today's reactors are designed differently and are thousands of times safer.

Cherynobl was a very old reactor and the government didn't put any money into it to keep it safe.

The newer CANDU reactors have multiple failsafes and are known as the safest reactors in the world (it's a Canadian design).

It's virtually impossible for this type of reactor to overload.

People are generally affraid of the word "Radiation" and it's too bad because Nuclear Power generators are the second cleanest form of power generation ( Hydroelectric being the first )

Everything has a risk involved.... imagine if a giant hydroelectric dam broke and a wall of water 100 feet tall traveled down the river for hundreds of miles..... you would have massive amounts of death and destruction.

[PrecisionBoost]

Speaking of radiation..... do you smoke??

If you do you will probably see more radiation in your lungs than the people on the outskirts of Cherynobl

Yes.... that's right.... your lungs fill up with all kinds of radioactive elements when you smoke.

Radioactive elements tend to get absorbed in tobaco leaves and when you smoke it the elements transfer to your lungs.

So.... as a "nuclear energy worker" I'm allowed 2,000mR in a year.

Someone smoking a pack a day gets 6,000mR in a year.

200,000 is when things can start happening such as cancer.

So at one pack a day it would only take you 33.3 years to hit the "dangerous" levels.

Some people's bodies are less sensitive to radiation so they can smoke all their life and not get cancer.

Other people get it after 10 years or less.

Anyways.... it's just and interesting fact I like to throw out at smokers.

This is also why the Ukraine is in so much trouble.... the fallout from Cherynobl has been absorbed by all the trees and food.... so they are finding significant levels in things like Tomatos and Cabbage....even firewood gives off readings on a geiger counter.


It's natures way of cleaning things up.

Basicly everyone in the area will die one day.... it's really sad that their government doesn't do something to clean things up.

[tango]

Okay Brothers...let's light this candle already. Our Family Member came here for answers and all he's been getting is us showing off our knowledge of Chemistry. I am to be entirely blamed more than anybody else because I have the wherewithal to find this information but instead opted to quarrel and argue. Well I've sat idly by long enough. Here's the link:

WTV-UK

They have DAEWOO specific kits that should take a lot of the burden off. I didn't bother to look up an American-based companies because they are unliekly to stock our stuff and then we'll get more posts as to which can be closely matched. They have "international telephone numbers" so this implies that they export. Good luck.