Tuning for Boost Question?

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:27 pm

RRFPR would work just fine for low boost up to 12 psi i would say

lanos2001 · Post by **lanos2001** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:29 pm

RRFPR would work just fine for low boost up to 12 psi i would say

whats RRFPR stand for?

nick

Chip · Post by **Chip** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:30 pm

lanos2001 wrote:so even if i do the map sensor deal so it won't see boost, i would still need the piggy back system?

Since our systems are purely speed-density systems they rely on a reading from both the MAP sensor and the IAT to determine the proper fuel trim for the air density condition (the O2 sensor obviously plays a role with the feedback control, but for these purposes that's irrelevant). If you close out the MAP sensor you are essentially closing out the ECM from calculating the proper fuel trim, so you must run some sort of fuel management system to "tell" the ECM what fuel trim to run. Hope this helps...

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:33 pm

rising rate fuel pressure regulator.. it will rais lets say 10:1

10 pounds of fuel per 1 pound of boost

Chip · Post by **Chip** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:35 pm

Sorry to ask but are you guys running on a budget? 'cos there're lots of parts already made in Europe for these euro-ecotec based engines, well you should already know that :P

We have a decent enough budget to cover a stand alone setup. I've heard of a lot of tuning products in Europe, but haven't heard too many specifics. Are you talking about turbo/fuel management, and if so can you point me to some sites?

lanos2001 · Post by **lanos2001** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:50 pm

okay i'm sorta lost now. so i do need a piggy back system no matter what?
sorry about the confusion i'm just getting into the whole turbo deal.

nick

Post by **Efratech** » Tue Apr 26, 2005 7:52 pm

Chip wrote: We have a decent enough budget to cover a stand alone setup. I've heard of a lot of tuning products in Europe, but haven't heard too many specifics. Are you talking about turbo/fuel management, and if so can you point me to some sites?

I was really talking about getting stronger internals, in Europe, in the Opel/Vauxhall thing for high spec turbo/NA engine's they use standalone managements such as DTA, MBE, Autronic and others.

But in engines such as the C20LET wich uses a MAF and is already turbo from factory there're some "phase/Evo chip levels" avaliable.

For example this is Wallace performance who's the UK dealer for the German Opel tunning company VMAX

http://www.wallaceperformance.co.uk/c20 ... tware.html

And this is Regal who's the UK dealer for the German Opel tunning company EDS

http://www.regal-shop.co.uk/asps/extra11.asp

Stefan · Post by **Stefan** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 9:33 am

As your class allows it, throw the standard management in the bin. Most rally teams will not use the stock management unless it's stated in the rules. They're hard to reprogram and have no data logging capabilities.

For N/A use most people use QED, SBD or Jenvey throttle bodies on the 2.0L DOHC engine with DTA or MBE management. Omex and Emarald are also used by more budget minded teams.

Turbocharged varients often use Motec systems as these often have to use inlet restrictors which require the use of boost pressures over 30psi (Motec has sensors for up to 55-60psi). Anti-lag control is also a requirement. If your not required to use a restrictor on your turbo you could use any system that can use a 3bar map sensor. You also need to consider if you need anti-lag and and data logging capabilities.

I'll see if I can dig out some useful links for you concerning the engine and chassis. If I'm correct in assuming the chassis of yours is based on the Mk4 Astra you may as well use the group A or N parts that are already developed for it.

Stef

ubuyau · Post by **ubuyau** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:43 am

Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator with stock injectors worked fine for 6psi boost on my setup. Using a Malpassi 1:1 regulator.

I T-eed in check valves on the MAP sensor feed tube - but i have 3 of them in series before the MAP sensor so it bleeds off boost but still works fine. You dont absolutely have to have an AFC - sure it helps to tune it 100% but this setup worked fine for me with low boost.

On the weekend I changed upto the red collar 2L Nubira injectors too (from the light blue collar 1.5L injectors). This was a pretty noticeable change. I havent knocked the base fuel pressure level back on the RRFPR so she is running a little rich at the moment :twisted: but runs VERY quick!!!!

Still no time for dyno just yet. I'll try and post some pics of changing the injectors soon.

--Tim

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 10:49 am

what does different collar colors stands for?? i mean what is different between a light blue and a red collar injector??

MMamdouh

ubuyau · Post by **ubuyau** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 11:47 am

Im guessing they flow different?

Nozzles look the same.

Light blue collar came from the 1.5L lanos engine.
Red Collar were from the 2L nubira engine.

Im guessing red collar flow more - im definetly running richer on them.

--Tim

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:11 pm

i have a 1.5 too so we share the same injectors and when i took them off i saw that light blue collar too but i thought it means nothing but now i guess they do.

i also found this pic and it looks like my injectors but they got black collar... how differen are those from mine??

MMamdouh

Chip · Post by **Chip** » Wed Apr 27, 2005 3:20 pm

ubuyau wrote:Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator with stock injectors worked fine for 6psi boost on my setup. Using a Malpassi 1:1 regulator.

I T-eed in check valves on the MAP sensor feed tube - but i have 3 of them in series before the MAP sensor so it bleeds off boost but still works fine. You dont absolutely have to have an AFC - sure it helps to tune it 100% but this setup worked fine for me with low boost.

--Tim

Tim, how do you control your injector spraying without an AFC? And more what I mean is how do you even get your injectors to spray if you've cut off the pressure signal to your MAP sensor? Does your ECM just control the fuel as though it's WOT?

-Chip

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Thu Apr 28, 2005 2:23 am

I'm using an SAFC-II an adjustable Rising rate fuel regulator and I have an MSD DIS-2 ignition controller on the way.

The RRFPR will be good enough for the "rough" fuel curve and I will tune it on a Dyno with the SAFC-II

Then I will tune the Ignition maps ( also on the Dyno )

As for the MAP sensor I will simply clamp the voltage of the stock unit so it doesn't make the ECU freak out.

I will also be installing a 2 Bar MAP sensor for use with the SAFC-II

Injectors and a fuel pump may be needed, it depends on how much boost I go with.

I think I'm going to start around 8psi and work upwards from there to something in the range of 15psi to 17psi depending on how the engine holds up.

I might blow the engine but it only cost me $295 so I'm not too worried.

I have spare blocks, cranks, rods, pistons, head..... if anything gets damaged I should be able to fix it up in no time.

I plan on removing the stock con rods, shot peening them and having them smoothed and polished.

I plan on some forged pistons with around 8.5:1 compression.

ARP rod bolts are a must and I will be installing ARP head studs and a steel MLS gasket.

Other than that..... it should be pretty much stock everywhere else.

ubuyau · Post by **ubuyau** » Mon May 02, 2005 11:25 am

Chip wrote: Tim, how do you control your injector spraying without an AFC? And more what I mean is how do you even get your injectors to spray if you've cut off the pressure signal to your MAP sensor? Does your ECM just control the fuel as though it's WOT?

-Chip

I have check valves on the MAP sensor tube that goes from the throttle body. The check valves bleed off boost from the MAP sensor so it never sees boost. When on boost the MAP thinks its WOT and controls the injectors accordingly.

I have a RRFPR which will bump up the fuel pressure when on the boost and bigger injectors. Its not quite as precise as a standalone AFC and it does run a bit rich at idle but works fine...

I cant justify the extra expense, this setup is working fine for me so far...

--Tim