Spark Plug Question?

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Thu Jan 29, 2004 5:51 am

well here is the biggest thing that i have liked about these plugs

in winter it gets down to -30' F at times and lately it has been that cold and with the bosch platinum 2's the car took 15 minutes to worm up...

today after installing the ngk r's i parked my car out side in the cold, it was around -8' F at Noon let it sit till about 2:00 and then went to go pick up my g/f. when i started my car i noticed that it only took about 30 - 60 seconds to reach the first notch, when it usually took about 13 - 15 minutes to get to that point. i drove about 1/2 mile at speeds of 25 - 30 mph and by the time i got to my destination the car had already warmed up completely (about 1/4 inch from the halfway point)

by this im thinking that the plugs are burning more fuel making more heat!!?

i dont know what exactly is going on differently but i will plug my A/F gauge back in when i have time and see if its any different

i personally like the ngk plugs better then the bosch 2's, i dont think that it has a big enough size of platinum coming out of the center, but if it did i bet it would be alot better of a plug because it woudnt get dirty so damn easy and not faul up and miss fire

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Sun Feb 01, 2004 5:15 pm

I have not tried the Bosch +4 plugs, but I do use the regular Bosch platinum plugs in my winter Lemans - in conjuction with the high-quality plug wires and K&N filter element, the overall fuel consumption dropped by about 0.75l/100km in the city driving. The engine also lost its flat spots.

On the other hand, those plugs do not work well on the forced induction engines - they foul way too quickly. After discussion with couple of mechanics, they suggested using the NGK non-platinum plugs for the 2.0 Turbo engine... and after doing so, I do like them. There are no problems with fouling and the car runs great. Besides, I dont mind paying $7 every 4 months to replaced them

seattlelanos · Post by **seattlelanos** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 12:20 am

WooHoo wrote:well here is the biggest thing that i have liked about these plugs

in winter it gets down to -30' F at times and lately it has been that cold and with the bosch platinum 2's the car took 15 minutes to worm up...

today after installing the ngk r's i parked my car out side in the cold, it was around -8' F at Noon let it sit till about 2:00 and then went to go pick up my g/f. when i started my car i noticed that it only took about 30 - 60 seconds to reach the first notch, when it usually took about 13 - 15 minutes to get to that point. i drove about 1/2 mile at speeds of 25 - 30 mph and by the time i got to my destination the car had already warmed up completely (about 1/4 inch from the halfway point)

by this im thinking that the plugs are burning more fuel making more heat!!?

i dont know what exactly is going on differently but i will plug my A/F gauge back in when i have time and see if its any different

i personally like the ngk plugs better then the bosch 2's, i dont think that it has a big enough size of platinum coming out of the center, but if it did i bet it would be alot better of a plug because it woudnt get dirty so damn easy and not faul up and miss fire

I haven't thought about it before, but you are absolutely right. My Lanos took about 14-16 minutes to completely warm up before I cleaned my Bosch +4s with a fine sand paper. Now, after cleaning the +4s, the car completely warms up within 3-5 minutes. That is really strange. I wonder what is the reason in such warming up difference. Maybe it is just a coincidence. Maybe our thermostats are just not working properly?

DomWoo · Post by **DomWoo** » Mon Feb 02, 2004 2:46 am

i dont know but my thermostat is bran spankin new

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 6:16 pm

I know this is pretty old thread but really intresting subject.

the reason for reduced warm up times after cleanup is that the cleaner spar plugs are able to burn fuel more effecently and cause lots of heat for the same amount of fuel so you will get that result when you clean your spark plugs or replace them with new ones... results are far better if your old spark plugs are way too old.

also when comparing spark plugs i noticed you compare your old spark plugs with the new ones which is not fair for the old spark plugs... to do a real test; get a new set of both spark plug types and test them in the very same conditions... i bet my regular yet brand new NGK spark plugs will perform better than a 30K miles old bosch super 4 spark plugs any day of the week.

as for gapping... those multi -ve pole spark plugs got non adjustable gaps so you use them as they are.

some one said he is complaning that his spark plugs were fouling after 30K miles...

this is too damn alot miles for spark plugs to stay in service! my manual states that i have change them every 12.5K miles and i replace them a little before that and i clean them every 3K miles. leaving your spark plugs with no service at all for 30K miles is asking for the impossible.

i had feedback from friends with Lanoses that used the Bosch super 4 and they say it is very nice... the can feel the difference in performance but that doesn't mean they will last for ever, they still need cleaning every once in a while to remove the dirt that accumilates on them by time.

MMamdouh

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 7:00 pm

mmamdouh wrote:

some one said he is complaning that his spark plugs were fouling after 30K miles... this is too damn alot miles for spark plugs to stay in service! my manual states that i have change them every 12.5K miles and i replace them a little before that and i clean them every 3K miles. leaving your spark plugs with no service at all for 30K miles is asking for the impossible.

MMamdouh

oh shit! i have 27k mile and i doubt my spark plugs have been touched! (got my car at 15k) How do i clean them? .. or i should probably just replace them

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Sun Mar 20, 2005 8:11 pm

Cleaning every 3 thousand miles... as in like every oil change?? That seems a bit drastic

Honda recommends a tune-up every 100,000 miles and even after changing my Daewoo plugs at like 50, 000 miles they still weren't fouled up.

New car engines are fairly low maintenance, no reason to go crazy and clean everything every couple of months.

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:17 am

BosnianLanos wrote:Cleaning every 3 thousand miles... as in like every oil change?? That seems a bit drastic

Honda recommends a tune-up every 100,000 miles and even after changing my Daewoo plugs at like 50, 000 miles they still weren't fouled up.

New car engines are fairly low maintenance, no reason to go crazy and clean everything every couple of months.

if you think that is drastic... what if i told you i also throw in a TB disassembly and full cleanup including the idling speed sensor with every oil change?? :twisted:

OK you are right about that but you missed one important point... i cover them 3K miles in some 6 to 7 months of time as i don't drive my car that much distance every day, i only change my oil twice a year.

also my driving is aggreasive and through heavy traffic, hot, and dusty conditions, hell even the service manual categorizes my usage style as "sevear" so i always pay a bit more than usual maintenance and checking for my car... thats why it is still performing as good as new after more than 6 years of service.

guys that use their cars in much better conditions can afford much less drastic maintenace as them new cars require less aitenance than what the old cars used to as you discribed... i am just a cleanup frak and i enjoy doing it, and after all i just do that twice a year so i can't complain at all.

MMamdouh

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 9:27 am

kinkyllama wrote:
oh shit! i have 27k mile and i doubt my spark plugs have been touched! (got my car at 15k) How do i clean them? .. or i should probably just replace them

cleanup is easy... i take my spark plugs out, use an old tooth brush and some gas to clean them up nicly from deposits and let them dry then i put them back on.

if needed i rub the electrodes with smooth sand paper but i don't really recommend that... i came across an article saying that doing this might make the tips of the spark plugs be rounded and will affect the production of the spark.

probably the spark will be produced much easier if the edges are sharp or so... that explains the V shaped and the U shaped electrodes on the NGK and Denso spark plugs respectevly.

also don't do those cleanups too frequently as the spark plugs could be affected by humidity if left out of the engine for too long.

and last but not least... Yes replacing the spark plugs is much better than cleaning them.

MMamdouh

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 3:32 pm

I guess, if there is a lot of dust and you change your oil once or twice a year, it makes sense to cleap it.

I drove my Daewoo for 30,000 miles a year on average, under the most severe conditions available and I gave it almost no maintinence, now with another car it is being driven something like 7000 miles a year.

I guess maintenance is relative.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 6:55 pm

I think ill just replace my spark plugs. . . do i have to buy a certain kind or what?

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Mon Mar 21, 2005 11:52 pm

kinkyllama wrote:I think ill just replace my spark plugs. . . do i have to buy a certain kind or what?

i tryed NGK and they are good, i am currenty using Denso and so far so good... if you want to try Bosch super 4 i have got feedback that they are good too.

MMamdouh

asam · Post by **asam** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 5:34 am

How do you like the Denso Iridiums? For $12 each, are they worth it?

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 8:44 am

asam wrote:How do you like the Denso Iridiums? For $12 each, are they worth it?

mine are not iridiums, they are regular denso spark plugs that costed me 28 LE (4.75$) for a set of 4... i will try to get the P/N as i still got the box they came in it at home.

MMamdouh

genie47 · Post by **genie47** » Tue Mar 22, 2005 2:06 pm

Don't let anyone fool you.

Platinum plugs are the most expensive plugs anyone can buy. If anyone charges you more for iridium, they are just cashing in on the marketing idea of "new technology". Iridium as a rare earth metal is cheaper than platinum.

The only difference that rare earth metal plugs make is longevity and durability. From my experience, copper/iron/nickel plugs give you the best performance but they don't last. To keep the ignition system operating in peak condition, these need to be changed every 10-15k km. This would even be shorter if you are using high end CDI systems like what Woohoo is using. I've seen tips of regular plugs blasted to oblivion in CDI systems.

I'm using double platinum plugs. You might consider this ironic after what I have said. No it isn't. Automotive technology needs economics.

I was offered USD2.44 for each NGK double platinum plugs thanks to overstocks Double platinums reputedly run for 100k miles. Regular copper/iron/nickel plugs also cost USD2.44 per piece and I have to change it every 10-15k km. After doing the math, you can see why I got them.