Any Leganza enthusiast/ in Melb Australia want a repair job?

[MatesLeganza]

Mates Leganza, which I have posted about here b4, has broken down leaking hose from back of water-pump pipe, the alloy outlet on back of waterpump has corroded away and isnt able to support that hose and seal with it, common problem, Ive heard...Ive made an attempt to temp fix it by putting some silastic on the outlet to help the hose seal, and replaced the clamp with a gear clamp, but it hasnt been successful too much of the outlet has broken away..

and I dont have time or the nerves or patience with it to get further involved , so we need some Daewoo lover locally who knows these cars of course as everyone on this forum does,
and is interested in fixing it for him...Ive suggested to him that he replace the T-belt and w-pump and pulleys while that is being done .
I think those can be had as a kit reasonably priced, from memory.
its sitting out front of my place in Keysborough currently, can organize RACV truck to move it of course..

How do those pipes come out, as I have a junker Leganza engine in my shed, and even after removing the water pump on that motor to see whats what with them, it doesnt seem to budge ., is there somethng else securing it in place?

ph 97117548 if interested in the job on the car as described to discuss .

[benzino]

I think I know which fitting you are talking about

Unfortunately, I think the only option will be to drill out the old fitting, tap the hole, and screw in a new aftermarket fitting
it will be an arse of a job because it's such a tight spot. you will have to take out the alternator and maybe even the intake manifold to give you enough room...

If I was closer, I would come and give you a hand...

[MatesLeganza]

I think I know which fitting you are talking about

Unfortunately, I think the only option will be to drill out the old fitting, tap the hole, and screw in a new aftermarket fitting
it will be an arse of a job because it's such a tight spot. you will have to take out the alternator and maybe even the intake manifold to give you enough room...

If I was closer, I would come and give you a hand...

thanks...they actually service the part from Daewoo/Holden dealers, its about $60, I think there may also be after-market ones, but the price of the part is of course a more minor issue,
in my old motor in shed I have which was the original in this car and which I have already removed WP, I can see underneath some kind of rusty recess hole for what may be a bolthead or rivet of some kind which may or may not be securing that outlet pipe in place..yes, is extremely difficult workspace with engine in car, even removing the pipe to water pump hose wasnt easy, yes, alternator and its upper support bracket is already removed.
These outlets rotting away like this is not at all uncommon in that engine, Ive seen references to it on car-fix sites across the world...the car is leaking from the hose on back of water pump, they say, and its pretty obvious what has caused it..electrolysis decay of the alloy pipe, same as this one.
Undoubtedly among other posters on this board will be people who have replaced that water pump pipe thing..it actually looks like its part of the rear engine block, but it isnt really of course, its an alloy fitting somehow either pinned or maybe even shrunken into the block somehow, if they do service it as a part, obviously means its meant to be replaceable.

here is an image, it is not of the one in the car, its the one in the old engine formerly from that car, ironically although that engine failed, that outlet was still in serviceable condition in that one.


These engines and I think the original Camira engines, seem to suffer from excessive corrosion issues even when the cooling system glycol etc has been maintained.
There must have been poorish metallurgy used in them.

I dont want to take on such an involved job, Ive worked on the car in the past including putting that engine in it and changing its welch plugs last Christmas, but Im just getting too old and cranky nervous system to do big jobs lying on my back on awkward cars to work on..ill end up pulling a John cleese taking a sledge hammer or log splitter to the car , literally..

I stick with my 92 hilux ute, its got a small 2Y 4k-corolla-look engine in a big engine bay, no a/c p/s etc accessories, and almost nothing goes wrong anyway, and when it does, almost everything is a 1-hr tops repair..

[MatesLeganza]

again, this one pictured is from the spare engine, the one actually in the car, that outlet is half rotted away and has also caved in one side..

[Quench]

With the waterpump out, can you tap that short alloy pipe out using a slightly smaller diameter extension pipe and hammer?

[MatesLeganza]

extension pipe?

you mean inserting something into the internal of it which is slightly smaller but not be much?

Ive tapped the lip of it with a ball pein, and although I didnt use great force for obvious reasons, I tapped it firmly enough to begin to flatten the lips of it, it showed no signs of movement


here is the one in actual car where leak occured..as best I could photograph it..the other side of it facing directly up where I could not get a camera shot at from above, is actually in worse shape, but I think this one gives some insight that the last centimetre of it which actually contains its lip has disappeared completely...

[MatesLeganza]

here is an image of the other motor again, with WP removed...there is a small recessed hole of some kind visible on that face with the pipe underneath behind it, it can be seen faintly in two of these pics, and Im wondering if that little hole plays some key to securing/removing the pipe...







obviously these engines are prone to a LOT of corrosion, both of these engines have had fairly regular glycol maintainance, it has not prevented a lot of Fe and Al rust/electrolysis

[Quench]

Do you have the replacement part yet? Is it 'screw in' or pressed into the block?

What I'm saying here assumes press in type:

The extension pipe I mention would only work if you have direct access to the corroded alloy pipe from the waterpump side - hard to judge by your picture whether the hole is simply filled with corroded junk or if the hole is not straight line of sight to the back of the alloy pipe. The extension pipe would have to be similar diameter to the alloy pipe (fraction smaller) so you could put it onto the backend of the alloy pipe edge (waterpump side) and bang it out - assuming you have room to swing a hammer. Otherwise try a skinny flat end punch and hammer - carefully not to damage the inside hole of the block.

Only other idea I can give is to put a slightly larger diameter piece of short pipe over the corroded alloy pipe - will need to be probably 2cm longer.
Using a large washer on the end of the short pipe with a bolt through it into the water pump area, you put another washer in the waterpump side of the alloy pipe (edge of the washer must be a fraction smaller than the hole in the block, while enough to sit on the backend of the alloy pipe. Feed the bolt through this washer and slowly tighten with a nut. Effectively you are making a press to push the corroded alloy pipe out. Obviously the washers will need to be strong (thick).

If the replacement part is screw in, then sorry, none of the above will work. Whatever you do, I wish you all the best.

[MatesLeganza]

yes, no, i dont have the replacement new part actually purchased and within reach , it could be pressed in shrunk in or screw in even so far as I know..im wondering what the role of that small hole visible above the ductway itself is in my pics, if that is some kind of securing of it.

obviously since it has to be a water-tight fit and is accessing the water jacket effectively, it must be secured firmly somehow..

im wondering since Camira-based block, if the part was common to Holden Camiras, and Camira enthusiasts or the Camira workshop manual refers to it..

[Quench]

The engine is very similar to the DOHC motors used in the Holden Astra TR / Vectra JR models I believe.

[MatesLeganza]

yes, + Calibra..
.the actual part Im in trouble with, being part of the lower block, is probably even common to the original early 80s JB Camira 1600 which is the ancestor of all these engines..and b4 that it possibly goes back to a Vauxhall Cavalier or something....
Camiras had the same sort of water pump set-up, except on that SOHC engine, you actually set TB tension by rotating water-pump with a 41mm wrench that you were expected to pull out of your butt..but the WP was of almost identical appearance to the pump in the big DOHC engines..
therefore would have pumped out to hose and pipe on rear, through same sort of structure, presumably..

I only have a manual on CD...this issue is not even mentioned in cooling chapter..

[MatesLeganza]

finally got the info in great detail, from a 4YO UK webpage thread


reason it didnt come up on first searches is that yesterday I found out the GM part number, googled it, and up popped this thread, way he had worded the title meant that it hadnt come up with my seach words

I will put the link here for benefit of other poor sods who run int this problem in future.

http://www.migweb.co.uk/forums/engines- ... block.html

[benzino]

good work on the find
also ordering from the UK is pretty much the best option... so good work with ordering from autovaux

the prices that holden try to charge us are just crazy especially when they have to sometimes special order parts from europe and you end up having to wait anyway!

[Quench]

Yeah, great find!
And for the benefit of others searching this forum, the part number you found for that metal pipe in the block behind the water pump that connects to a water coolant hose is: 90572544

Might not hurt to use a touch of some sort of sealing compound when pressing the new one in - just a suggestion..

Anyway, best of luck with the repair MatesLeganza!

[MatesLeganza]

looks to me like its going to be a similiar sort of principal job to a Welch Plug...with the added option of having a hole in it if you can get both sides, ie, if you have the WP out, you can rig something to pull it through with a thread and nut and washers, rather than drive it in from outside..
ill just be using Permatex #2 or similiar sealant..

it doesnt look hard to butcher out, as the thing has rotted so thin that there is no strength left anyway..

major misfortune is that it is still looking like either an engine out job, or remove intake manifold again, to get workspace, as well as simplify the timing belt and WP changeover..
...as RH drive-shaft, engine pipe, and starter motor all interfere badly in the work path to the outlet from underneath anyway

that Autovaux looks like the best set up online parts dealer for a particular make that Ive ever seen..
Somebody should really call Holden and bake them over that parts price...$59.90 + GST, vs 5 odd pounds from their sister franchise in UK..now that is genuine GM part price vs genuine GM parts price, so there is no excuse.

the belt kit , actually its sold as separate parts, is also ludicrous extortionate price from GMH..