Help needed - Daewoo Lanos 1.6

[Nubaroo]

Hi guys.

Just picked up a Lanos 1.6 turbo motor from Wolfhound in Durban this weekend.

The motor has been built right - Wiseco forged pistons, Cometic headgaket and all the turbo stuff needed to run a respectable 200wheel horse power.

I am just curious - the engine is still using standard Lanos 1.6 conrods. I am planning to try and make a little bit more power with the engine(around 220Wheel kilowatt or so) - my question is - what power can the stock Lanos 1.6 conrods SAFELY handle???

Also on the cometic headgasket - can you use it more than once?? - I would like to fit forged conrods (if needed to make the above power) and also get some ARP headbolts??

Any feedback/suggestions will be greatly appreciated.

[Nubaroo]

Anybody???

[gse_turbo]

sounds like a good buy!

the 1.6 rods are forged, the 2.0 are not. the 2.0 rod tipically doesn't go over 200WHP, the 1.6 being forged should handle over 200whp with no problem. it should go well over 220whp.that being said, I don't recall anyone ever saying that they have had problems or what hp it was at. I think existence was even going over 200whp in a fatory 2.0.

usually what will fail is the connecting rod bolt. it's one of, if not the most, high stress points in an engine. installing ARP rod bolts will keep you safe for a long time.

as for the head gasket, the answer is yes and not. Yes it can be reused ONLY if the engine has not been ran. NO, it can not be reused if the engine has been ran.

as for the ARP head bolts/studs. let me know if you are interested, I am the only onethat can provide them anywhere. I have a set on the shelf ready to ship if you want them.

[exist3nce]

sounds like a good buy!

the 1.6 rods are forged, the 2.0 are not. the 2.0 rod tipically doesn't go over 200WHP, the 1.6 being forged should handle over 200whp with no problem. it should go well over 220whp.that being said, I don't recall anyone ever saying that they have had problems or what hp it was at. I think existence was even going over 200whp in a fatory 2.0.

Yup the factory 2.0 U20SED rods + whole bottom end have been handling ~260whp for 2-3 years daily driven. Although I use a ramped boost curve to keep torque down and under control. So instead of numbers more typical of the motor like 260whp/260ft lbs, I keep the torque down to about 225ft lbs or less. If the 1.6 rods are stronger than the 2.0, then I would say you are looking good.

[Rodd1s]

sounds like a good buy!

the 1.6 rods are forged, the 2.0 are not. the 2.0 rod tipically doesn't go over 200WHP, the 1.6 being forged should handle over 200whp with no problem. it should go well over 220whp....

I don't mean to piss on your bonfire, but he wants to make 220 kW at the wheels, not HP... which is nearly 300 hp at the wheels.

[gse_turbo]

good eyes! I didn't see that.

in that case I don't know that the factory rods will do that. even withe stronger bolts and wrist pins it would be pushing it.

I would suggest a forged H-Beam. this way you will get the full benefit of the floating wrist pin with the pistons as well. when forged pistons are used on the factory rods you give up the floating pin for the factory type pressed pin. the floating pin means that there is more movement at the wrist pin and it's more efficient. efficiency is what makes power.

[PrecisionBoost]

the 1.6 rods are forged, the 2.0 are not.

Where did you get that info? I'm not saying your wrong, but that is the first time I've heard that.

Having said that, I have a 1.5 engine that must have had water in one cylinder and the con rod bent to hell but did not break.
Previous owner put on about 15,000km with the bent rod smacking the lower edge of the cylinder


Although the higher horsepower does mean higher pressures on the piston and thus connecting rod, in my opinion increased redline is far more of a risk than adding power via boost.

I wish I had the data handy, I use to have this nice plot of data showing the difference in peak cylinder pressure between two identical engines ( one N/A one force fed )

I can't remember very well, so don't quote me, but the Force fed engine (believe it was 1Bar boost ) produced peak pressures that were something in the range of 35% higher.

I remember that the pressure plot was wider ( so turbo engine produced peak pressure for a larger angle ) which is where the primary increase in total power came from.


On the other side of things, the RPM was a huge factor as the forces on the connecting rod increase with the square of the acceleration/deceleration at TDC and BDC

That is to say increasing the RPM from 6000 to 8000 increases the stress on the rod by something like 70% ( again don't quote me, I don't have the data here )

So in the big scheme of things, RPM can actually be a larger factor than peak power.


It looks like forged rods will set you back about $800 USD ( IPP = import performance parts who are a supplier of Opel parts out of the USA ) before shipping, then you would need bearings and wrist pins and a rebalance of the engine.

So I guess it depends on your budget and whether your concerned about blowing the engine.

The other question is if the crank can handle that much power.

You might spend what seems to be over $1000 on connecting rods and end up blowing the engine due to broken crank.


If I were in your shoes I would probably let it run as is, if it blows up then it blows up, you might manage to salvage parts from or it might turn to a big piece of scrap metal.

I would have some fun with the 1.6L and if it dies, put in a 2.0L, which you know is capable of withstanding big power levels when built correctly.


Personally I would not waste the money on adding the rods to the 1.6L, I personally would keep the $1000 and use it towards a future 2.0L build

[gse_turbo]

I supplied most of the parts for Wolfhound and I know a bit about the engine. I'me sure the 1.6 crank is hardly different than the 2.0.

I should be able to do Forged rods for the 1.6 for around $500US with ARP 2000 series bolts. the pistons came from me and i know that can be used with the both the standard press pin rods and floating pin rods so youare fine there as well.

I would probably send you wrist pin retainers though because I doubt he put them in as they weren't needed and he may not have held on to them.

you will have to replace the head gasket if you decide to do the upgrade and you're looking at about $100 US for that as well.

upgraded rod bearing would be nice as well. I believe I have a set on the shel. they are ACL bearings with Calico CT-1 performance dry-lube caiting.

EDITED SPELLING
the pistons are all balanced together from Wiseco and the Rods are all balanced from K1 Techonlogies so you will have no balace issue.

[PrecisionBoost]

I supplied most of the parts for Wolfhound and I know a bit about the engine. I'me sure the 1.6 crank is hardly different than the 2.0.

This is the first time I have heard that the factory Daewoo 1.6L rods are forged, I would simply like to know where you came up with that information.

Even if the Opel/Vaux rods are forged, you can't make the assumption that the Daewoo 1.6L rods come from the same factory.

As far as the crank, there are very few people who have tried to get more than 200KW out of a 1.6L engine and we don't know if the Daewoo 1.6L crank has the same strength as the Opel/Vaux 1.6L.

That is to say we know the Daewoo 2.0L engines come from the engine plant in Port Melbourne Australia but I'm under the impression the 1.6L Daewoo engine comes from a Daewoo engine plant as opposed to a Holden or Opel plant.

One of our members from South Africa ( Danny Boy ) made 205KW with his 1.6L Daewoo engine using the factory rods and forged pistons, but he abandoned his 1.6L for a 2.0L a few years later and did not specify what happened to the 1.6L

The 1.6L and 2.0L cranks have zero in common dimensionally and so it would be foolish to assume the smaller 1.6L crank can handle more than 200KW 300whp.

The way I see it, the 2.0L is a better platform to invest money, we know the limits of the stock parts, we know they all come from the same engine plant and there are tons of proven combination's with proven power levels.

the pistons are all balanced together from Wiseco and the Rods are all balanced from K1 Techonlogies so I ou you ill have a balance issue.

I'm confused with this statement, balancing the crank/piston/con rod assembly has nothing to do with the balance of the individual rods/pistons.

Ideally you balance rods/pistons first, so that each set is identical to the other, in my experience factory balanced aftermarket parts are not perfect, you still have to pair the heavier pistons with the lighter rods and or remove minor amounts of material to make all four sets equal weight.

Then you must balance the the crank/piston/con rod assembly as a whole because the counterweights will need adjustment.

That is to say balancing is required to adjust for the difference in the connecting rod/piston weight ( factory vs aftermarket )

Ideally that system balancing should be done with the flywheel attached, excluding it will increase the risks in harmonic vibration at specific RPM levels.



I think 220KW from the factory Daewoo 1.6L would either be a great victory or a great defeat, if we were talking about sub 200kw numbers then I believe the risks involved would be significantly lower.

Ultimately who knows, you might manage 250KW without a single problem, or the engine might self destruct at 160KW.

Personally, I would try and contact Danny Boy and see what happened to his 1.6L, perhaps it's still alive and kicking, but I assume his switch to a C20XE was to allow him to increase the power further than the 205KW he achieved back in 2006.

[PrecisionBoost]

I just noticed that Danny Boy used an Opel bottom end ( originally a 1.6 8V ), so I guess there is no point in talking to him.

http://www.daewootech.com/forum/viewtop ... =15&t=5270

[Nubaroo]

Hi guys.

Thanks for all the input. I know Wolfhound had issues with the press fit connecting rods and had the rods rebushed and converted this to a floating system pin type.

I am leaning towards keeping the engine as is with the 1600 setup - that is at 200WHP that Wolfhound was running it for some time without any issues, untill later and popping something similar than the my Nubira setup in there

Maybe I will start building the 2.0L setup in the meantime - I have a nice Ecotec block with crank lying in my garage.....oh yes and also a spare COMPLETE Ecotec head with injectors, fuel rail etc etc - did I mention it is COMPLETE . All I need now is the forged rods and pistons and we good to go

Already fitted a F18 box in the Corsa for starters - the same type that started breaking on my Nubira only after the 300KW on the wheels mark.

Herewith a pic of the start of the transplant - will get the turbo and branch fiitted next week.



Will keep you guys posted on the progress of the little toy!!

PS - I have also upgraded the little 1300 brakes to 2.0L ones with slotted rotors for now - awesome stopping power on such a small car

[PrecisionBoost]

200WHP should be fun, it's not crazy like your Nubira, but I'm sure it will be a very quick little car ( I assume it's a Corsa )


Hopefully I didn't discourage you to much, I simply feel the Daewoo 1.6L is an unproven platform to build from where as the 2.0L is capable of high power with little risk.

Dollar for dollar the 2.0L will always make more power for less money, they are cheap and parts are easy to find for any level of build.

[jorge]

But the 1.6 likes boost my brother lanos with just 8psi makes 193whp and 190wtq 11.9a/f ratio with stock internals, stock exhaust manifold in other words all stock just a td04l, 315cc fuel injectors, apex (a/f tunning). I think that this engines are capable of making much more power with some upgrades

[Nubaroo]

200WHP should be fun, it's not crazy like your Nubira, but I'm sure it will be a very quick little car ( I assume it's a Corsa )


Hopefully I didn't discourage you to much, I simply feel the Daewoo 1.6L is an unproven platform to build from where as the 2.0L is capable of high power with little risk.

Dollar for dollar the 2.0L will always make more power for less money, they are cheap and parts are easy to find for any level of build.

Hi bud.

LOL no you did not discourage me The engine is in the car with an Opel F18 gearbox. We managed to connect the Dicktator stand alone ECU yesterday and started the car. Now to have a new branch for the trurbo, boostpipes and 63mm exhaust done. Then I am going to run the car at 0.8bar boost and see how it goes. The guys here in south africa have turbo charged 1.4L Opel cars (wich is pretty much the same as the Daewoo block except it uses a 8 valve head) and managed 200kilowatts on the front wheels at around 2 bar boost - this with stock internals and by only dropping the compression. Needles to say the engines does not last very long before a ringland on the pistons break Hence I thing my 1600 should be safe at around 200WHP with the forged Wisecos in and the cometic headgasket Thanks for the input it is always appreciated

[benzino]

200fwkw on stock internals from a 1.4!!! holy hell!

still all that just to have the ringlands break, that's pretty damn impressive

I might have missed a thread, but what happened to your nubi?