I'm looking to get some parts together to start building a turbo setup, I've next to no experience in doing this. I do know the basics of how turbos work, and what stresses the motor would be under but not quite sure where to start.
I'm looking to run a tubro with boost coming in fairly early, not too quick of course, which turbo would you suggest?
I would like to know if the greddy piggy back systems out there would be sufficiant for a project with 5-10psi or would i have to get a stand alone unit.
At what point for boost do i want to start redoing internals?
simple questions for now... I'm still going through a lot of the builds on here, so i may answer my own questions soon enough...
Looking to start a turbo project on a spare motor
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Looking to start a turbo project on a spare motor
a woo that is a work in progress
-
PrecisionBoost
- Super Moderator
- Posts: 4437
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:59 am
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Re: Looking to start a turbo project on a spare motor
Really it comes down to two things, budget and desired power, which are interconnected to each other.
It's hard to say about the engine internals, but as a generalized rule 7psi of boost is probably as much as you want to go with your high compression pistons, so I'd guess roughly 200hp at the wheels
Even at this level your going to have to do something with your clutch ( stronger pressure plate as a minimum )
Having said that, you could probably manage 10-12 psi (235 hp at wheels ) on the factory engine if you or your tuner were very experienced on setup.
Beyond that, I would say it's primarily an issue with the pistons and compression ratio.
If your going to go and drop in pistons, then the next "cheapest" mod would be a set of C20XE rods that have been nicely prepared ( usually removal of sharp edges and polishing )
With new lower compression pistons ( hypereutectic for example ) and a set of C20XE rods you should be able to manage a solid 15psi of boost without putting the engine in any danger.
At that point you could probably manage 250+ hp at the wheels, it really depends on how much time you spend on the dyno and your engine management.
I'd say 275hp to 325hp is achievable fairly easy, but you are going to start risking the drivetrain ( engine + gearbox )
The strenght of the gearbox will most certainly depend on unit to unit, you may get one that will be happy until 300lbft of torque, or you might have one snap at 200lbft of torque.
One thing to consider is the idea of pulling an M32 gearbox from a wrecked Chevrolet Cruze, that would ensure you have a nice strong gearbox, but there would be some custom work to get it to mount correctly.
Alternatively you could import an engine from the UK and not have to worry about engine work, just drop in a Z20LET and away you go.
In the end, there are thousands of choices to be made, the key is starting with a realistic short medium and long term budget with a specific horsepower level in mind.
To me, the care would be lots of fun at 235whp, it would have similar driving characteristics to a Mazdaspeed 3, which is one fast hatchback.
It's hard to say about the engine internals, but as a generalized rule 7psi of boost is probably as much as you want to go with your high compression pistons, so I'd guess roughly 200hp at the wheels
Even at this level your going to have to do something with your clutch ( stronger pressure plate as a minimum )
Having said that, you could probably manage 10-12 psi (235 hp at wheels ) on the factory engine if you or your tuner were very experienced on setup.
Beyond that, I would say it's primarily an issue with the pistons and compression ratio.
If your going to go and drop in pistons, then the next "cheapest" mod would be a set of C20XE rods that have been nicely prepared ( usually removal of sharp edges and polishing )
With new lower compression pistons ( hypereutectic for example ) and a set of C20XE rods you should be able to manage a solid 15psi of boost without putting the engine in any danger.
At that point you could probably manage 250+ hp at the wheels, it really depends on how much time you spend on the dyno and your engine management.
I'd say 275hp to 325hp is achievable fairly easy, but you are going to start risking the drivetrain ( engine + gearbox )
The strenght of the gearbox will most certainly depend on unit to unit, you may get one that will be happy until 300lbft of torque, or you might have one snap at 200lbft of torque.
One thing to consider is the idea of pulling an M32 gearbox from a wrecked Chevrolet Cruze, that would ensure you have a nice strong gearbox, but there would be some custom work to get it to mount correctly.
Alternatively you could import an engine from the UK and not have to worry about engine work, just drop in a Z20LET and away you go.
In the end, there are thousands of choices to be made, the key is starting with a realistic short medium and long term budget with a specific horsepower level in mind.
To me, the care would be lots of fun at 235whp, it would have similar driving characteristics to a Mazdaspeed 3, which is one fast hatchback.
2010 BMW 335D
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
Re: Looking to start a turbo project on a spare motor
200-235whp is about what i'm looking to achieve.
I saw your post for the websites and suppliers I can buy from... and started reading well into that article for setting up a turbo on a car from this thread http://daewootech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9065... I've found a lot of good information, even as far as going into which intakes/filters to use! It's already helped a lot...
I guess the things that lose me quickly are when people talk about turbo sizes and fuel management things... I wouldn't really need more than 7-10psi for now, short term goal of around 200whp... Even so i would probably take precautions to make my motor more able to withstand even higher boost, even if i wasn't using it... such as the lower comp pistons and the rods... 15psi is quite a nice amount of boost though and i'd be very tempted haha...
what would you suggest for a starting point on turbo sizes and manifolds? I really respect your opinion, everything I've ever read by you has been informative, just wanna thank you for your help already! =)
I saw your post for the websites and suppliers I can buy from... and started reading well into that article for setting up a turbo on a car from this thread http://daewootech.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=9065... I've found a lot of good information, even as far as going into which intakes/filters to use! It's already helped a lot...
I guess the things that lose me quickly are when people talk about turbo sizes and fuel management things... I wouldn't really need more than 7-10psi for now, short term goal of around 200whp... Even so i would probably take precautions to make my motor more able to withstand even higher boost, even if i wasn't using it... such as the lower comp pistons and the rods... 15psi is quite a nice amount of boost though and i'd be very tempted haha...
what would you suggest for a starting point on turbo sizes and manifolds? I really respect your opinion, everything I've ever read by you has been informative, just wanna thank you for your help already! =)
a woo that is a work in progress
-
PrecisionBoost
- Super Moderator
- Posts: 4437
- Joined: Thu Jun 19, 2003 5:59 am
- Location: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Re: Looking to start a turbo project on a spare motor
On my T20SED ( 2.0L 16V ) I am running a Garrett GT3071R turbo and I'm running 10psi for now with about 235whp
It spools very quickly, but your probably best off with sometime like a Garrett GT28RS ( disco potato )
Don't buy the cheap knockoffs if you can, a turbo will last you 10 years and can be used from car to car so it's really your most expensive but most important purchase.
You should be able to get a new one around $1000
The problem you will encounter is primarily controlling fuel and spark for the amount of power you want to make, the factory ECU can sometimes be a real pain, I had major problems going with a piggyback and the older AC Delco management.
I'm not sure how the newer ones are ( Delphi ) but Existance hasn't had too many problems
It spools very quickly, but your probably best off with sometime like a Garrett GT28RS ( disco potato )
Don't buy the cheap knockoffs if you can, a turbo will last you 10 years and can be used from car to car so it's really your most expensive but most important purchase.
You should be able to get a new one around $1000
The problem you will encounter is primarily controlling fuel and spark for the amount of power you want to make, the factory ECU can sometimes be a real pain, I had major problems going with a piggyback and the older AC Delco management.
I'm not sure how the newer ones are ( Delphi ) but Existance hasn't had too many problems
2010 BMW 335D
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
Re: Looking to start a turbo project on a spare motor
So I'm buying a car from the junk yard, going to tear out the motor and transmission and put it into the hatch, and I'll be rebuilding the motor currently in the hatch... The rebuilt motor will be my turboed motor... As far as transmissions go, i know we don't have the best transmissions... so i'm gonna guess I should take it light on the d20 on the donor car until i can upgrade... Is there any fab work needed to mount the cruze 6 speed manual?
a woo that is a work in progress
Re: Looking to start a turbo project on a spare motor
My firend is running GT3071R and VEMS on volvo 1.8T (stock engine stock internals) on 2.4bar (340kpa) and it puts out 530HP...
I'm running the biggest T3 AR.60, exAR.63 and VEMS on modified C20LET engine with 400HP... Have broken 3 gearboxes (F28)...
You should go with stock engine, good stand alone like VEMS, and go to the engine limit, like 250HP... Than if you like it and want more, forged pistons/rods are must have, some F23, GT3071 or GT3076, and only the sky is the limit...
I'm running the biggest T3 AR.60, exAR.63 and VEMS on modified C20LET engine with 400HP... Have broken 3 gearboxes (F28)...
You should go with stock engine, good stand alone like VEMS, and go to the engine limit, like 250HP... Than if you like it and want more, forged pistons/rods are must have, some F23, GT3071 or GT3076, and only the sky is the limit...