Won't start :(

[whereami]

Hi all, I've become the owner of a 1999 leganza 2.2 DOHC that will not start. The odometer is at 68k miles. The previous owner stated that the engine was "rebuilt" at some point but didn't elaborate on when/how/why. It will turn over and attempt to start, usually it will catch and run badly for a couple seconds then stall out. No check engine lights or ODB codes are given (cheap OBD reader says "no codes").

Things I've done so far: swapped around relays for the fuel pump with same type from junkyard. Pulled off the timing belt cover and the belt appears to be intact. Removed valve cover, but I don't really know what to look for in there. Replaced ignition coil pack, spark plugs, wires, MAP sensor, fuel pressure regulator, fuel cutoff switch. Replaced fuel filter, removed fuel lines from firewall forward to check, removed fuel rail and tested injectors, one was bad and replaced, verified that they all spray fuel when cranking. The fuel pump does prime when key is turned to run position.

Today we checked compression and all cylinders were between 70-80psi, but will have to recheck tomorrow as the battery was about dead by this point (charging now). I am not sure what the pressure is supposed to be.

I would be very grateful for any suggestions or ideas as what to do next. Need to get this car running very soon or I will be forced to junk it which would be a shame, the body and interior are in mint condition.

Thanks in advance

[PrecisionBoost]

I hope it's just a dead battery because 70psi means your engine is dead

Ideally, you should see something like 180psi.... less than 120 psi would indicate a significant problem in my opinion.

As well all cylinders should be within 10%

Given the mileage and age.... I'm going to assume the timing belt broke and there was damage to the cylinder head/valves.

If the previous owner did rebuild it I have to assume that with 70psi there are still significant issues with the cylinder head.

The good news is that engines are cheap.... if you go to www.car-part.com that will put you in touch with some of your local auto recycling companies ( as well as give you a price )

[whereami]

Thanks for the reply. Today we tried again with a charged battery and got compression 85-90 on each cylinder. Checked the fuel pressure at the rail and got about 41psi. Next up I pulled the passenger wheel, shroud, motor mount and timing cover and spot one of the idler pulleys was destroyed. Prior to my first post we just wedged the top of the cover open and marked the belt to see if it moved when cranking, which it did, just not very well apparently.

What are the chances, or your best guess of the valves/etc self-destructing under these circumstances? Guess we won't know for sure until tomorrow when the scrap yards open up and I can scavenge a pulley. Also I am wondering if this could have damaged the catalytic converter? Every yard in my area has signs posted stating no cats for sale.

Here's a pic just because:

Will update tomorrow,
Thanks again.

[Trey05Woo]

I hope you didnt pay too much money for that because chances are all the valves were damaged, and any that might have survived propably got damaged during your diagnosis.

70-80psi means pull the head off ans see what you find. Unless you got a bore camera to stick down the plug hole...

Good luck

[PrecisionBoost]

I'd say your going to be looking at refurbishment or replacement.... you'd be best off replacing all valves or replacing the whole head if you can find one complete without bent valves

[whereami]

Okay here's the deal: Replaced the pulleys, replaced and set the timing belt and tried to turn it over and nothing..just CLICK. We all knew this thing wasn't going to make it that easy. So we pulled the head off, marking everything as it came off. Lifting the head off I spot three valve heads laying on top of pistons #1 and 4. Piston #1 has two small gouge marks, the rest look okay..Obviously cylinder #1 on the head has a gouge on one of the valve pockets.

I assume that this head is DOA, or can that be repaired? Right now my time is pretty much free, and the car wasn't much more, which is why I got this thing in the first place. The local pull-n-pays have a bunch of daewoo's and some isuzu's that have the same engine, so heads are plentiful and cheap, just no way of knowing if it's any better than this one till I pull it. I'll try to get some pics of the block tomorrow.

Here's a few pics:




Again suggestions are welcome,

Thanks

[Trey05Woo]

Aww that aint nothing! Perfectly repairable. The valve guides probably split and cracked at the tips, what most machine shops do is just grind down the tips till they have a clean end. Usually this means removing about 1/4 inch of the guide. This saves MAJOR money and time. Dont be afraid and think this will affect valve performance or travel it DOES NOT. The guide is still sturdy and has enough foundation to perform correctly. I have complete heads at my shop ready bolt on units, but if you got some mechanical experience, then Im guessing you can get a better deal on your end. Regardless I sell 2.2l heads complete: cams, lifters, resurfaced, revalved, ground, assembled, for 400 USD.

If your looking to repair that one just make sure the guides didn't fracture all the way to the base this is uncommon but Ive seen my fair share, and if you are going used valves, make sure they still can be ground, because swapping used valves from one engine to another sometimes requires additional grounding, this can thin the valves and cause them to crack (especially exhaust).

Otherwise simple weekend project that mofo should be burning smoke in two days time...

Ohh and make sure you purge the oil out of lifters before installing, as regrounding/replacing valves (especially used) sometimes changes the valve height, and can cause lifter or spring damage if the lifter is still loaded. If you dont know how to do this just ask and I can show you... real simple.

[whereami]

Okay back in business now; had some affairs to attend to. I spent a bit of time trying to find a spring compressor to get the valves out, I might as well had been speaking greek to the parts/tool guys. After buying and returning 3 different (expensive) tools, ended up cutting a deep well socket into a crescent and welding it to a $20 sears compressor, works great. Anyways, we've removed the three broken valves so far, but I think the seals need to come off before I can continue. While probing the valve guide I wrecked a valve seal, the tiny circular spring popped off with a bit of rubber seal material, d'oh. How do you remove the seals without destroying them?

Do I need to remove the valve guide in order to grind it down, or can it be done while in the head? If the previous, what is the best way to remove them? My idea was to pick up a head from the boneyard (40$) and use it as a donor for the one I have now. There is one that has 40k miles on the clock but it is on a nubira with snapped timing belt..I believe it will suit my purpose though, what do you think? At that point I will have about $250 invested in this thing so far.

One last question; what to do about that gouge on the exhaust valve seat/pocket?
Here's a pic of the block, which has a gouge in the first piston, however I was assured was no big deal:


Thanks for taking the time to explain all this to a newb, obviously the first time I've been this deep into an engine

[Trey05Woo]

My my my, that valve didn't like that piston too much loool, and it looks like it won too. Too much surface damage for me too feel comfortable with. i would probably get a new pistion, they run like 80 bucks new, maybe 15-20 at a salvage yard. Just not worth taking the risk and having that mofo crack, besides, that piston will forever suffer from piston noise forever and ever.

You can either pull that one piston and replace it with new rings, and rehone that one cyinder, or pull all pistons, replace #1, and install new rings in all cylinders, rehone all cylinders. Depends what your budget is. The latter is the correct way to go. You would also have to get all new rod bearings and bolts, as you cannot cross bearings from engine to engine, or install your old ones on the salvaged piston. Besides, chances are the rod bearings are shot from impact as well. A new set of rod bearings runs about 32 bucks OEM and the bolts (which are not reusable) cost about 12 bucks for all 8.



As far as the head goes, you can clean the guide tips using a chisel and hammer (carefully) and using a drill with a grinding tip to smooth out the guide ends. This can be one with the guide in the head. Believe me you DO NOT want to try and replace those guides, they normally never come out easy requiring drilling and installing new oversized units. major labor and money!

[Daniel]

Hi Trey05Woo,

Is this dent not a definitive issue? Can it be fixed?


Daniel,

[Trey05Woo]

Hmm can you get a good close up? I want to see just how badly damaged the valve seat is, otherwise the rest of the dent is not an issue. If the valve seat is too damaged the valve wont seat properly, and compression will escape via that imperfection.

Post a good close up...

[Daniel]

This pic was from whereami. IMO valve seat is busted.

[Trey05Woo]

yep... just saw the close up couple of posts up... unfortunately need to replace the head! Well, just get yourself a good head complete, and save yourself the money on extra parts etc...

IMHO, you might be better off just getting a complete salvaged engine, replacing the timing components and gaskets of said engine, and roll...

[whereami]

Hi Again, been thinking I should post a thanks to this forum for providing some much needed guidance to an engine newbie. Bad form of me to cut and run, but had to go overseas for 6mo. Outcome was I fixed the car and gave it to a family member just before I left, they've since racked up about 60k miles since I last saw it..Only adding 1/2qt oil every month or so I guess. Almost doubled the life of this thing hehe.

I'll post a quick list of what I ended up doing to get this thing going again..Pulled that junk head and threw it in the dumpster..yeah that valve seat damage was irreparable..pulled a head off a nubira (make sure you get the cams if you do this) at the junkyard for $30bones..stripped the valves and crap and ordered new ones, cost of about 100$. Had it machined at NAPA for 25$..reused the head bolts, perhaps against not advisable but it worked, nothing broke. Cranked it and got about 120psi compression on each cylinder, so I ran with it..Oh yeah, make sure you replace the coolant lines behind the engine, it will spring a leak if you don't, with those cheap little clamps on there.

Slapped it all back together, timed it and it ran. DO NOT TRUST THE IDIOT LIGHT for the oil pressure. It did not come on at all. Drove it 2 miles around the block and ruined the rod bearings. So tack on another 100$ due to inexperience. Luckily I didn't marr the crankshaft. Problem was the oil pump pickup tube was clogged as hell, original owner probably never changed the oil..

So just posting a followup and and a thanks to Trey05Woo and the other guys. I've been repairing PC and telecom equipment for years, and was always intimidated by engines, and this 250$ car was much cheaper than any class I could have taken, even though I had the time. And it gave someone a vehicle to drive cross country about 8 times which cost me about 700$ (plus time, but I bought this car knowing I had plenty of, and always wanted to learn engines)