Lanos was 1600 Turbo - going 2 litre N/A

[wolfhound]

there was a local guy, Danny Boy running a 1600 Woo motor in his Corsa, pushed 1.2 bar boost and got over 200Kw out of it. Ran it that way for ages.
Guess that means the bottom end is quite strong

[Rovsche]

Thats ok, no doubt, but how do you guys think where is the border limit when crank will crack? Its very interesting question because Im going to boost hard the aim is 500hp on the crank

[wolfhound]

From a 1600 ?

Well in the 80's, the BMW F1 team were getting 1000bhp out of a 4 cylinder 1500, but it was running 4 bar boost and they only lasted for one 2 hour race.

But seriously for big power it would be WAY better to start with a bigger engine, like the V6 - the Isuzu version is a 3.2 - 3.4 - for 500 hp that would be a better starting point with twin Turbos.

My 2 cents

[Rovsche]

Its no way for me to boost bigger engine, becouse 500hp from 1600 is a principal thing.
I know there is a solution for a crank to buy forged from Arrows, but the price of the crank is not good Id prefer firstly to learn how many hp will stock crank hold.

[PrecisionBoost]

One thing to consider is that boost/power is not the main force on the crankshaft.... intertia/acceleration/deceleration are the main forces on a crankshaft.

It's been a while since I was heavy into the engine mathematics but I believe the peak cylinder pressure increases about 10% for every 1/2 BAR of boost..... so that is about 20% more force for every bar of pressure.

That is to say on a 4 cylinder engine running 1 BAR of boost each cylinder will increase by 20% for a total increase in power of roughly 80%.

That is a general estimate....it depends on the volumetric efficency of the engine as to how much of the actual air mass gets into the cylinder.... sometimes if you do really good job you can bring that figure of 80% up to something closer to 95% but that will be in a very narrow band of RPM.

So if were saying that each bar increases peak power by 80% then we can figure out how much boost you need to make 500 horsepower.

I assume were talking at the crank.... so I will use 100hp as a baseline peak horsepower at 0psi of boost

To increase to 500hp we need about 6.25 BAR of boost.

Now if each bar increases peak pressure to the piston by a factor of 20% that means your peak cylinder pressure will rise an additional 125%.

So it will move from about 900 PSI as 0psi to about 2025 PSI at 6.25 BAR ( 1125 PSI increase in pressure )

The 1.6L piston has about 7.593 square inches of surface area..... so at 0psi your looking at about 6834 lbs of force on each of the pistons.... and at 6.25 BAR that number jumps up to 15,376 lbs of force on each of the pistons.

So.... by running 6.5 BAR you would be jumping the peak force up by 8542 lbs each time a piston fired

That is a very significant change in force on the crank and I really don't know if it will handle that much boost.

[PrecisionBoost]

The other option is to increase the RPM for the peak horsepower

Horsepower = (torque X RPM ) / 5252

So if you are making 100lbft of torque all the way up to 10,000 RPM you will make 100hp at 5252 RPM and 190hp at 10,000 RPM.

So if your goal is 500hp and you manage to get the RPM redline up to 10,000 RPM then you only need 262.6 lbft of torque.

At 5000 RPM that torque would give you 250 hp

Now....again using a 100hp baseline ( at 5000 RPM ) we can say that your going to need about 3.125 BAR of boost to manage 250hp at 5000 RPM..... which should give you 262.6 lbft of torque.... which will give you 500hp at 10,000RPM.

Now.... the big problem is that we've increased pressure due to the boost by about 62.5% but we've increased the forces on the crank due to RPM by a square factor

That is to say increasing RPM from 6500 to 10,000 will increase the forces during acceleration and deceleration by 236%

Given peak power does not occur at the peak acceleration or deceleration I'm going to guess that were talking about a total increase in forces in the range of 250%.

So..... boosting it to 6.5BAR only increased the force by 125% while boosting just 3.125 BAR and increasing redline will change the forces by 250%.

Now at this point you might think the 6.5 BAR is better... but we can remove rotational mass from the pistons, connecting rods and crank to significantly reduce the issues with accelerating and decelerating the rotational mass.

So... lighter forged pistons.... lighter forged rods..... lighter knife edged forged crankshaft.... will all combine to decrease the rotational mass by a huge amount while increasing the amount of force each component will take by a very significant factor.

[PrecisionBoost]

sorry for all the math in the middle of your post on your car wolfhound.... just thought it might be a good time to jump in an talk about limits of the 1.6L engine with some solid numbers to explain the forces.

[buddha102]

im lost lol

so how far can 1.6L engine be taken? hp range

so u increase the RPM range to get more hp? so u need better valve springs right, cause (i think) the stock ones are not capable of doing that kind of work so u get bent valves because of valve float

can you get different cams that increase the lobe, and will it "work" (like you wont get valve float) on stock engine?

[exist3nce]

sorry for all the math in the middle of your post on your car wolfhound.... just thought it might be a good time to jump in an talk about limits of the 1.6L engine with some solid numbers to explain the forces.

Thanks for making that post(s), it was an interesting read.

[greenbluewoo]

Thanks for making that post(s), it was an interesting read.

+1

[daewoomofo]

chris always has good posts.

[wolfhound]

right, 12000 kays under the belt - 7500 miles.

So, i put in a bigger fuel pump, and sorted out the faulty Dicktator wireing to the fuel relay and took the car back to the dyno, stuck in those 460cc Ford injectors only to find out that 2 of them didn;t work properly so in went the 300cc ones again. lucky we saved the original map.

Back to the dyno again.

it started to run lean at 6500rpm but was showing over 210hp at the wheels, with a bit of boost creep up th nearly 1 bar.

So we set the rev limit to 6000rpm till i can find some proper 550cc injectors and got 198bhp at the wheels - 147kW - which should equate to around 235hp at the flywheel (175kW)

then on the way home i pick up a ticking noise, sounded like a sticky follower - turns out the be a broken gudgeon pin WTF, no-one know why.

So its me looking for spare parts again.

Sean

[nexia182]

What brand are those 550cc injectors you talking about? How to know what is the cc? The stock original daewoo lanos or aveo is how many cc?

my 550 fuel injectores were Denso, stock lanos or aveo injectors are about 19lb.

[Buzzwes]

Hi Sean,

How is the Woo running?

I have just fitted a new head gasket and it is puffing smoke, gona strip and rebuild now.

I have a uni chip that I am waiting to fit, you still have the exhaust manifold??

Chat soon, hope you still visit this site

[wolfhound]

1st time back on here is years.

Woo is stilll running, had a failed cam belt tensionner, after the broken gudgeon pin.

reboreed another block as the pin had left a huge groove in the other block.

Decided to sell the car, and got stoooooopid offers so will keep it, besides everytime i decide to sell it somthing else goes wrong, picked up a noise in the D16 gearbox now.

Luckily i still have the Opel Big Boss 16v F20 box, this needs a clean up and some new drive shaft seals and it will go in.

Still running the 300cc injectors and 0.7bar boost, and TBH i will prob just keep it at that.

Sean