greenbluewoo turbo build ''list''

greenbluewoo · Post by **greenbluewoo** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:59 pm

I was going to use a s13 top mount manifold

nexia182 · Post by **nexia182** » Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:02 pm

wow very nice project!!!!!!!!!!!!

are u using front rotors from forenza-optra?????

greenbluewoo · Post by **greenbluewoo** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 4:11 am

no I was going to get a wilwood big brake kit from kinky

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:15 am

Wow.... you've made quite a bit of progress..... I haven't been following your thread .... I was out for coffee with GSiTurbo tonight and he mentioned you ended up with the same styling as he did with the silver valve cover and OPC.... you even picked up the yellow oil cap.

So far things look good, but I have to ask what you've done about the valve springs..... as stock ones may lead to valve float if your planning a reasonable amount of boost with those cams.

I could be wrong but I was thinking those cams have a slightly higher lift than stock.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 5:25 am

Your new cams specify a 9.88mm lift where as the stock ones are 9.2mm....... that's a 7.4% increase in lift.

Given inertia is related to the square of the velocity it means that your valves are going to see at least 15% more load.

Pressure from the turbine will also tend to try and keep the valves open.

So what I'm saying is you have more lift, higher inertial forces and pressure from boost created by the turbo.

Add those up together and it may spell trouble if you didn't replace the stock valve springs with something significantly stiffer during the build up.

I'm not trying to scare you.... but I'd hate to see you put all this money and work into the car/engine and then smack the valves on the pistons the first time you get on a dyno at 6000 RPM.

nexia182 · Post by **nexia182** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 6:44 am

greenbluewoo wrote:no I was going to get a wilwood big brake kit from kinky

wow thats good, how much it cost?'??? i want to change my brakes also.

greenbluewoo · Post by **greenbluewoo** » Fri Dec 05, 2008 9:44 am

So far things look good, but I have to ask what you've done about the valve springs..... as stock ones may lead to valve float if your planning a reasonable amount of boost with those cams.

I was going to buy qed double valve springs just ran out of money

right now Im just trying to save up for more parts but soon enough I will get them

wow thats good, how much it cost?'??? i want to change my brakes also

still waiting for price and I think he is getting the lanos rotors spect out by wilwood oh he did quote me a price I think he said $930

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 12:15 am

greenbluewoo wrote: I was going to buy qed double valve springs just ran out of money right now Im just trying to save up for more parts but soon enough I will get them

Good to hear that your going with the double valve springs.... you may even want to get the valves reprofiled near the stem to decrease weight and increase flow.... and a multi-angle valve job would help as well.

Were you doing this work yourself.... or did you have a shop do it?

Just wondering if you matched weights of the components and balanced the entire system ( flywheel, crank, pistons, rods as an assembly )

I have a set of the Willwood brakes ( originally set up for the Optra/Reno ) I picked up from Kinky..... they are really nice.... I'm going to use them on the GSi ( since they also have a 4X100 pattern )

chris

greenbluewoo · Post by **greenbluewoo** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 2:01 am

Were you doing this work yourself.... or did you have a shop do it?

Just wondering if you matched weights of the components and balanced the entire system ( flywheel, crank, pistons, rods as an assembly )

I did all the work myself unfortunately I didnt get everything balanced

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sat Dec 06, 2008 7:56 pm

Don't exceed the factory redline.... your new pistons and rods will definitely be different than stock which will cause some balance issues.

I don't have the time to go into balancing..... so here is a decent link I found that goes over all the main points.... http://www.eddiesvalvegrinding.com/balancing.htm

Here is another decent link..... http://www.cwtindustries.com/whybalance.htm

I'm pretty sure balancing can only be done with the crank out..... don't think it works with it all assembled.... or at least I haven't seen anyone do it like that

Perhaps Garrett can help supply you with info on the weight of your new components.... then you can compare them to the old ones and get a general idea of how far your off.

If they are close..... well.... you might be just fine.... if you had only replaced the pistons I'd say your probably ok.... but both rods and pistons might cause an issue... it's hard to say.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:24 pm

I don't want to give you any other bad news but GSiTurbo and I were just talking about this post and discussing external vs internal balancing and he mentioned something else that probably should be brought to your attension.

Forged pistons require completely different clearance than cast pistons (your stock ones) so I just wanted to make sure you actually measured your clearance and run out of your bores.

Forged pistons allways expand more than cast pistons.... so they will slap when cold and tighten up when hot.

If you did not get the correct clearance and simply threw in a set of pistons you may sieze your engine when it gets hot.

The company you purchased them from is not responsible for telling you how to go about setting up the clearance but they should have given you the specifications and or asked you about sizing when you ordered the pistons.

So if you simply honed the cylinders without measuring or machining you could be in trouble.

On the bright side..... you can allways get your rotating assembly balanced when you take everything apart to measure the cylinder/piston clearance and runout of the bore.

In case your unsure of runout.... it's basicly ensuring that the diameter of the bore doesn't change too much ( can't remember the specifications right now )..... if your bore is shaped like a barrell so the top and bottom are tight and the center is loose it will cause significant wear and blow by at the piston ring interface ( since they would be moving in and out thousands of times per minute the steel rings will wear the aluminum piston lands )

Hopefully this does not discourage you if you did not check the dimensions..... you have the components to make a great engine..... it just needs some TLC to ensure everything is setup correctly.

Personally.... if I was you at the time of building this engine.... I would have had the bore inspected by a qualified shop ( or purchased a bore measurement tool )and then ordered the pistons with the correct diameter to compensate for the bore ( if the runout was within specifications )

At this point if you clearance is incorrect or your runout is not within specifications you will have to pay an automotive machining company to bore out your cylinders.... it shouldn't be done by joe blow machinist at a local machine shop.... the machines they use for engine blocks are quite specific in order to main parallelism to the crankshaft.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 9:28 pm

Here is an example of a cheap bore measurement tool....... http://www.toolsurge.com/prodView.asp?sku=STO-3D301

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 10:59 pm

PrecisionBoost wrote:Here is an example of a cheap bore measurement tool....... http://www.toolsurge.com/prodView.asp?sku=STO-3D301

those can be a PITA to use, im not saying that you cant use it but with me useing them at work, i think that these
http://buy.ebay.vn/buying/en/display/25 ... -TOOLS-PSD
and a big micrometer might be easier to use, but thats just in my experiance.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Mon Dec 08, 2008 11:47 pm

I'm not sure what daewoomofo does for work ( don't think I've ever asked ) ..... but I personally wouldn't suggest spending a pile of money getting both a telescoping gauge set and a micrometer.

The problem in my opinion with the gauge/micrometer testing is that your not taking direct bore readings..... that is to say you have to put the gauge in one specific area of the bore... set the gauge.... pull it out.... measure it... then go back in and try to find another spot right beneath it.

With the bore gauge I mentioned your taking direct readings at all times.... you simply rock the shaft back and fourth in one spot until you get a maximum reading.... and that is your magic number..... then you move down a little bit... rock back and fourth until you get to your maximum and take another reading.

If you get use to using one it can be done very quickly....... much quicker than the gauge/micrometer method.

This is just my opinion.... I'm sure you will find people on both sides.

Also keep in mind I would not buy this cheap import crap I sent you a link for.... I'd probably spend several hundred for the nice ones that have a digital display showing the "max" bore diameter.

Don't get me wrong.... the import gauge I gave a link for will probably work just fine.... but I personally would invest in a better gauge.

You should also make sure your not measuring the bore in one area only..... you have to check for "out of round" as well.... since it's possible the pistons may have worn a slightly oval shape into the bore.

If it was me..... I would perform 4 measurement 45 degrees apart.... 0 deg, 45 deg, 90 deg, 135deg...... this covers the entire bore because your measuring 0 vs 180, 45 vs 225, 90 vs 270, 135 vs 315 ...... you can be pickier than that.... but it's probably not necissary as that will give you a very good idea on the roundness, diameter and runout of the bore.

greenbluewoo · Post by **greenbluewoo** » Tue Dec 09, 2008 1:32 am

I didnt measure the bore

but I bought the motor brand new only had 55 miles on it so I thought it would be ok since I bought the same size pistons as stock I will go and get the bore measurement tool check everything out oh and the rust on the side of the motor wasnt there when I got it. its because it was sitting in my garage for a year