Danish newspaper making fun of Prophet Muhammad

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Thu Feb 02, 2006 11:35 pm

JohnnyC wrote:Yeah... I gave away my lego's ages ago. I don't use any of those products anyway myself.

I have to say though, I still believe that it falls under free speech. It doesn't make what they've done right at all, because it most certainly is not right or good.

That's the double edged sword that is free speech. At times, people will use it for ill purposes, or to express beliefs that most sane people would find offensive, vulgar, and deplorable... but without it, you could not speak out against things that are wrong.

as an example... The President of my country has made so many horrible choices both at home and abroad. If I did not have free speech, I could not speak out against his choices. In fact, without free speech, I might be put in prison or perhaps killed for speaking ill of him and his choices. Luckily for me, I still have free speech and can voice those concerns.

Unfortunately, retaining that right to free speech means that I also must accept that others may voice their opinions, despite how bad they may be.

As much as I might hate some of the things people use free speech for, I would happily die to protect my children's rights to free speech, as it is one of the most important freedoms one can possess.

Johnny... their is a big difference between freedom of speech and ill manars... if you got freedom of speech in your country as you say then you would say to the presedent: you are wrong.

that doesn't mean that you can tell him "you F#$King son of a bi%$h, what were you thinking of when you did that? maybe if you stuck your head out of your @$$ you would have chosen right"... if you did that you will end up in jail as well but not 'cause the presedent violated the freedom of speech code but rather 'cause you got no manners... got the point i am talikng about?

people mis interprit freedom... it is not the freedom to do wahtever you want, it is the freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt other people freedom as well so if one wants to be absolutly free to do whatever he wants then he got to live in outerspace 'cause on earth we live in a community were we have to respect each other's freedom.

MMamdouh

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz · Fri Feb 03, 2006 12:22 am

(off topic) It is Lego ... NOT Legos or Lego's. It's name is a proper noun which the singular is also the plural. There is no 'S' on the end of it at any time. Ever.

(on topic) Actually, here in the U.S. no matter how rude it is, you could say anything you wanted, even to the President and not go to jail, unless you threatened his life or his family. Just calling him names will not be cause for you to go to jail.

Again, those cartoons are just completely wrong and the people responsible for them, those responsible for allowing them to be printed and the newspapers owners should give formal and sincere appologies, but it is too late for that as the damage is already done.

Anyone with ANY common sence could see how those would offend many millions of people.

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:08 am

(on topic) Actually, here in the U.S. no matter how rude it is, you could say anything you wanted, even to the President and not go to jail, unless you threatened his life or his family. Just calling him names will not be cause for you to go to jail.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sheehan.arrest/

O RLY?

Sadly, free speech is never free.

JohnnyC · Post by **JohnnyC** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 1:23 am

BosnianLanos wrote:
(on topic) Actually, here in the U.S. no matter how rude it is, you could say anything you wanted, even to the President and not go to jail, unless you threatened his life or his family. Just calling him names will not be cause for you to go to jail.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sheehan.arrest/

O RLY?

Sadly, free speech is never free.

Yes RLY... Turns out they shouldn't have removed or arrested her.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/01/ ... index.html

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:13 am

JohnnyC wrote:
BosnianLanos wrote:
(on topic) Actually, here in the U.S. no matter how rude it is, you could say anything you wanted, even to the President and not go to jail, unless you threatened his life or his family. Just calling him names will not be cause for you to go to jail.
http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/01/31/sheehan.arrest/

O RLY?

Sadly, free speech is never free.
Yes RLY... Turns out they shouldn't have removed or arrested her.

http://www.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/02/01/ ... index.html

Of course they shouldn't have, but they did. Arresting someone for wearing a shirt? How much more of a slap in the face can freedom of speech get.

TheGreatAndPowerfulOz · Fri Feb 03, 2006 3:26 am

The only reason she was arrested was because she had a shir with a political message on it.
Upon entering, the rules were clearly posted and told to everyone that there were to be NO signs, shirts or messages with any political messages allowed into the assembly.

Aneab · Post by **Aneab** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 7:53 am

That picture is kind of messed up... But at the same time i'm sure that only a handful of people are like that... where they become enraged to the point of killing and brutality... I think it's fine to become angry when someone insults your beliefs as the danish did... but not to the point of threatening violence... They're defining an image of a people that really is nothing like how they define them though... and christians i'm sure do the same thing, although since the society we live in... we don't get to see the news of how some people did an anti-muslim protest... because the media thinks the public wouldn't care... So in no way am i saying that all other faiths are any better at keeping all of their followers from attacking other religions... I just wish they wouldn't do that... because we all have the right in my opinion to believe what we want to believe, and deserve not to be mocked like the islamic faith was by the danish...

Anyway, that may not have been understandable, but i know what i was trying to say... if it doesnt make sense, it's basically me saying everyone deserves the same treatment... Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Bhuddist, and whatever else.... they should all be respected... And no one should mock... and no one should threaten violence against other's beliefs...

~Kyle

karim · Post by **karim** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:22 am

I agree with you. There should be respect.

Johnny... their is a big difference between freedom of speech and ill manars... if you got freedom of speech in your country as you say then you would say to the presedent: you are wrong.

that doesn't mean that you can tell him "you F#$King son of a bi%$h, what were you thinking of when you did that? maybe if you stuck your head out of your @$$ you would have chosen right"... if you did that you will end up in jail as well but not 'cause the presedent violated the freedom of speech code but rather 'cause you got no manners... got the point i am talikng about?

people mis interprit freedom... it is not the freedom to do wahtever you want, it is the freedom to do what you want as long as it doesn't hurt other people freedom as well so if one wants to be absolutly free to do whatever he wants then he got to live in outerspace 'cause on earth we live in a community were we have to respect each other's freedom.

MMamdouh

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sat Feb 04, 2006 10:56 pm

Aneab wrote:
That picture is kind of messed up... But at the same time i'm sure that only a handful of people are like that... where they become enraged to the point of killing and brutality... I think it's fine to become angry when someone insults your beliefs as the danish did... but not to the point of threatening violence... They're defining an image of a people that really is nothing like how they define them though... and christians i'm sure do the same thing, although since the society we live in... we don't get to see the news of how some people did an anti-muslim protest... because the media thinks the public wouldn't care... So in no way am i saying that all other faiths are any better at keeping all of their followers from attacking other religions... I just wish they wouldn't do that... because we all have the right in my opinion to believe what we want to believe, and deserve not to be mocked like the islamic faith was by the danish...

Anyway, that may not have been understandable, but i know what i was trying to say... if it doesnt make sense, it's basically me saying everyone deserves the same treatment... Christian, Muslim, Jewish, Bhuddist, and whatever else.... they should all be respected... And no one should mock... and no one should threaten violence against other's beliefs...

~Kyle

you are right Kyle... thats why i never ask people about their belifs 'cause i don't care about that... all i care is how good you are as a person... what you belive in is between you and God and it is not my business in anyway.

accordingly this means that i shouldn't make fun of anyone's belifs and i expect them to do the same... for me i have christian and non belivers that are my friends... never insulted anyone before and not going to do it.

as for the pic i don't know in which country did this happen but people's reactions differ according to their environment and how well educated they are and all... i say slaying the Danish won't do us any good... acxtually it will make us look really bad and people will belive that we are a valgre nation... it is sad that the reactions of minorty makes people judge all muslims

MMamdouh

delphis · Post by **delphis** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:07 am

I think george carlin said it best when he said,"No one should take themselves too seriously, because when they do they will start doing irashional things because they can never see the other side of the story than someone is poking fun at them."

I think it is messed up that someone would have actually printed that in the newspaper taken it out and then put it back in. I am not sure, but I think that people of every religion has had either some joke of some sort making fun of someone elses god, wheather it be christians, muslims, mormons, jewdism, agnostics, santanists, and buhdists. I think everyone needs to take a step down off of there horses and thinking that everyone is better than everyone else and then getting offended by something that is so meaningless. I am not a beleiver in any orginized religion because of there lack of seeing around someone elses beleifs and saying that people of other religions are damned or going to hell or are whatever and not just judging them by there actions of goodness. I am not directing this towards anyone on this board or anyones personal religion, because in my ideas I think everyone has a right to choose what they want to beleive, but just don't go around bragging about what is right and wrong for everyone else. I am a spiritual person who does beleive in a god wheather it be buddah, muhammad, jesus, moses and so on.

Everyone just needs to relax see what other people mean when they make fun of someone else, it is all with no harm but intended just as a joke and that is it. My friends and I make fun and poke at each others ideas all of the time and it is acceptable, but if you don't know that person than it is now politically incorrect. It's all in good fun and remember that next time that someone makes fun of you or a group you are apart of, it is only when it is done in excess that it becomes wrong, just poke fun back at them.

smoke a spliff and enjoy my rant.

SickDrift · Post by **SickDrift** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 12:17 am

MMamdouh,

I wasnt going to take part in this discussion, because i hate seeing "religion" or politics discussed on the hobbyist forums i frequent. They too often make enemies of otherwise good aquaintences, and destroy friendly relationships.

I agree with you and your dislike for what these cartoons represent (though i have not seen them myself). Here in America, we value our free speech, and have fought very hard to get and retain it, as I am sure your country has too. It is unfortunate however that there are those who abuse this right, and harm others with it, like these cartoons have.

So stand by your convictions. No one has the "right" to discredit and insult anyones spiritual beliefs, whether they be islamic, judaic, christian (mine), atheistic, or whatever.

Sorry to everyone else had had to read this and didnt intend to. It's just my take.

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Feb 05, 2006 7:52 am

SickDrift wrote:I agree with you and your dislike for what these cartoons represent (though i have not seen them myself). Here in America, we value our free speech, and have fought very hard to get and retain it, as I am sure your country has too. It is unfortunate however that there are those who abuse this right, and harm others with it, like these cartoons have.

So stand by your convictions. No one has the "right" to discredit and insult anyones spiritual beliefs, whether they be islamic, judaic, christian (mine), atheistic, or whatever.

well said man!

MMamdouh

genie47 · Post by **genie47** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 5:18 am

For a look into the controversy, see the Wiki link below. Offers a blow-by-blow account.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jyllands-P ... ontroversy

cpd · Post by **cpd** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 7:44 am

Irrespective of right or wrong, look how it's gotten. 2 embassies burnt to the ground now.

So it's OK for us to be called infidels and our "God" (keep in mind I'm an atheist and don't believe in anything but science) mocked, but not vice versa?

While I believe Islam in the pure teachings is very peaceful.. I dunno.

I'm all for believing in religion if it makes you happy, but as soon as you start killing people for it and vilifying others as a result of them not believing, that's fucked.

All those fanatics over there are retards. Yes, you can be unhappy about it, but guess what, it's 2006. That shit's seen as terrorism, and just further reinforces the stereotype that the Danish newspaper was satirising.

I know I'm not going to be a popular member on this forum now, but I had to get that off my chest. Mmamdouh, sorry if it offended you. I'm sure you're a very peaceful person, I just don't like the extremists. By all means, I'm all for you boycotting things for your beliefs, just these idiots that burn shit down?

*smacks head in frustration*

Aneab · Post by **Aneab** » Mon Feb 06, 2006 8:14 am

MMamdouh wrote:
you are right Kyle... thats why i never ask people about their belifs 'cause i don't care about that... all i care is how good you are as a person... what you belive in is between you and God and it is not my business in anyway.

accordingly this means that i shouldn't make fun of anyone's belifs and i expect them to do the same... for me i have christian and non belivers that are my friends... never insulted anyone before and not going to do it.

as for the pic i don't know in which country did this happen but people's reactions differ according to their environment and how well educated they are and all... i say slaying the Danish won't do us any good... acxtually it will make us look really bad and people will belive that we are a valgre nation... it is sad that the reactions of minorty makes people judge all muslims

MMamdouh

Yeah, you're definately right about the environment and education levels resulting in what they say. =( I'm just sorry that minority reactions make muslims seen as bad people... One of my best friends is one who practices Islam and he's just like any other of my friends, the only thing is, he's muslim and we all keep religion out of our friendship...

I asked him a while back a bunch about Islam, and I got a lot of insight into the religion... So I lost the assumption that all muslim people are bad.

I definately support you, for a peaceful protest of danish goods, but in no way do i support the extremists... Burning embassies?? Whats up w/ that? the people in the embassies control NOTHING of what the newspaper did... thats messed...

Oh well... None of my ranting on a Daewoo forum would change the minds of millions on either side of the debate...

~Kyle