i still use the trans from the GSE motor because i don't know what's out there. my car's going back together and i'm worrying that the what i've got wont handle what i need it to. i think i can upgrade to the grand am or sunbird input shaft for more clutch options but that's the extent. what about the muncie or getrag 5speeds or the countless others? i wont stop 'til i see close to 600 bhp and i need a trans to make it happen. if you could give me a direction to head in as well as a year, make, model referece and a source on an LSD it would get my project moving again.
Thanks
Garrett
OLD F16
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PrecisionBoost
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Your in the same boat I'm in since my long term project is to hit 800WHp with a stroked 2.2L ( making it 2.3L or 2.4L depending on bore )
I've researched all over the place..... the 6speed Getrag F28 from Europe might do the job if you spend some money to have one professionally built.
Expect to pay in around $5000 with Quaife LSD installed.
I'm betting my ponies on the F40 which has a very nice design..... everything about it says "high horsepower"
Considering they are mating it to 3.9L V6 engines as a factory tranny I think it will be able to take quite a bit.
What you really have to be concerned about is the torque levels your producing.
I'm planning on running a 10K to 12K redline ( use of a European C20LET Cosworth 16V cylinder head ) so my torque levels will be reasonably low.... probalby in around 400lbft to 500lbft
I'm told that the F28 might handle this amount of torque if I'm gentle with it.
I've talked to people at Quaife and XTrac about their transmissions and they both said the power output I'm talking about is very close to their limitations.... and I was told to expect to replace/rebuild the transmission every race if I'm going to be drag racing.
Obviously if your running 600hp the only time you will hook up traction is if your running drag slicks or very sticky R Compound tires...... so it really depends on you.
If you plan on running drag slicks an blast out of the gate at the local strip..... you need to spend $20,000 on a tranny and it might last you a couple of seasons if you don't miss shift and take it easy.
If you plan on street tires.... go with the F28 or F40.... both should handle the power you can put down on the street.... which is proably only 300hp with decent street tires.
Above 300hp..... I doubt there is much in the way of high performance street tires which will keep you from spinning out in the first three or four gears.
You have to keep in mind the weight of the car..... at 1000Kg ( 2200lbs) the Lemans/Kadette/Astra is way lighter than most of the other high power 4cyl vehicles out there.
The Suburu STi and Mitsu EVO both have AWD systems to help with traction.... but both are way heavier and are able to put more weight on the tires.
I guess if you had to compare a car weight wise it would probably be an older Civic under heavy boost.
If I were in your shoes.... I would probably start off with a low mileage F20 from the UK.... drop in the Quaife ATB differencial and a 4 or 6 puck ceramic clutch.
This should take you up into the 350hp to 400hp range.
Then I would save up some money and get a "rally prepared" F28 or F40 from a reputable gearbox rebuilder in the UK..... it's probably going to set you back $5000 but that's what will be needed to push past 400hp.
Then you can sell the F20 with Quaife ATB to someone here in the USA.... I'm sure you could get most of your original investment money back.
You could get a practically new D20 and convert it back over to the F20 using your F16 cable driven clutch system (D20 is hydraulic) but I doubt that it will have the same power handling capacity as the F20 made in Europe.
Having said all this.... I'm dropping my F16 with an uprated clutch back into my Lemans C20GET and I plan on atleast 200Whp....perhaps 250WHp if I can manage to squeeze enough air into the cylinder.... I figure I'm going to kill the F16 but that's ok.... I have a few spares.
Needless to say..... 350hp is not too hard to get to.... anything above that will cost serious amounts of cash.
You could always go with an automatic...... use the race ready tranny from the Cobalt.... they seem to be having good luck with them out on the track.
If you wanted to get really serious...... you could rotate the engine and turn it into a RWD..... there are dozens of trannys out there which will take 600hp.
Lots of guys out there drag racing for a living are having trouble finding decent FWD transmissions..... XTRAC is one of the leading suppliers...http://www.xtrac.com/mainindex.htm
I've looked over their products and the design specifications for FWD seem low... for example the 436 FWD Sport Compact Drag tranny is only rated at 220lbft..... which is confusing as hell.... I figure they must have other high power ones.... but I can't seem to find them on their products listing.
Here is a good place to start for the F28..... http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/
I've talked to these guys several times and they were going to shotpeen,polish,and blueprint an F28 for me prior to me finding out about the F40... they seem to have a fair bit of experience with the F28.... but they are unfamiliar with the F40 since it's brand new.
Good luck..... keep me posted if you find anything interesting.
I've researched all over the place..... the 6speed Getrag F28 from Europe might do the job if you spend some money to have one professionally built.
Expect to pay in around $5000 with Quaife LSD installed.
I'm betting my ponies on the F40 which has a very nice design..... everything about it says "high horsepower"
Considering they are mating it to 3.9L V6 engines as a factory tranny I think it will be able to take quite a bit.
What you really have to be concerned about is the torque levels your producing.
I'm planning on running a 10K to 12K redline ( use of a European C20LET Cosworth 16V cylinder head ) so my torque levels will be reasonably low.... probalby in around 400lbft to 500lbft
I'm told that the F28 might handle this amount of torque if I'm gentle with it.
I've talked to people at Quaife and XTrac about their transmissions and they both said the power output I'm talking about is very close to their limitations.... and I was told to expect to replace/rebuild the transmission every race if I'm going to be drag racing.
Obviously if your running 600hp the only time you will hook up traction is if your running drag slicks or very sticky R Compound tires...... so it really depends on you.
If you plan on running drag slicks an blast out of the gate at the local strip..... you need to spend $20,000 on a tranny and it might last you a couple of seasons if you don't miss shift and take it easy.
If you plan on street tires.... go with the F28 or F40.... both should handle the power you can put down on the street.... which is proably only 300hp with decent street tires.
Above 300hp..... I doubt there is much in the way of high performance street tires which will keep you from spinning out in the first three or four gears.
You have to keep in mind the weight of the car..... at 1000Kg ( 2200lbs) the Lemans/Kadette/Astra is way lighter than most of the other high power 4cyl vehicles out there.
The Suburu STi and Mitsu EVO both have AWD systems to help with traction.... but both are way heavier and are able to put more weight on the tires.
I guess if you had to compare a car weight wise it would probably be an older Civic under heavy boost.
If I were in your shoes.... I would probably start off with a low mileage F20 from the UK.... drop in the Quaife ATB differencial and a 4 or 6 puck ceramic clutch.
This should take you up into the 350hp to 400hp range.
Then I would save up some money and get a "rally prepared" F28 or F40 from a reputable gearbox rebuilder in the UK..... it's probably going to set you back $5000 but that's what will be needed to push past 400hp.
Then you can sell the F20 with Quaife ATB to someone here in the USA.... I'm sure you could get most of your original investment money back.
You could get a practically new D20 and convert it back over to the F20 using your F16 cable driven clutch system (D20 is hydraulic) but I doubt that it will have the same power handling capacity as the F20 made in Europe.
Having said all this.... I'm dropping my F16 with an uprated clutch back into my Lemans C20GET and I plan on atleast 200Whp....perhaps 250WHp if I can manage to squeeze enough air into the cylinder.... I figure I'm going to kill the F16 but that's ok.... I have a few spares.
Needless to say..... 350hp is not too hard to get to.... anything above that will cost serious amounts of cash.
You could always go with an automatic...... use the race ready tranny from the Cobalt.... they seem to be having good luck with them out on the track.
If you wanted to get really serious...... you could rotate the engine and turn it into a RWD..... there are dozens of trannys out there which will take 600hp.
Lots of guys out there drag racing for a living are having trouble finding decent FWD transmissions..... XTRAC is one of the leading suppliers...http://www.xtrac.com/mainindex.htm
I've looked over their products and the design specifications for FWD seem low... for example the 436 FWD Sport Compact Drag tranny is only rated at 220lbft..... which is confusing as hell.... I figure they must have other high power ones.... but I can't seem to find them on their products listing.
Here is a good place to start for the F28..... http://www.gearboxman.co.uk/
I've talked to these guys several times and they were going to shotpeen,polish,and blueprint an F28 for me prior to me finding out about the F40... they seem to have a fair bit of experience with the F28.... but they are unfamiliar with the F40 since it's brand new.
Good luck..... keep me posted if you find anything interesting.
2010 BMW 335D
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos
1994 Opel Calibra 4X4 turbo ( C20LET 2.0L Turbo )
2002 Daewoo lanos