Turbo Optra - Now on tuned Haltech @ 225whp

Nubira2.2 · Post by **Nubira2.2** » Sat Dec 23, 2006 6:50 pm

SRT-4 injectors are high impedance and the same shape of the Forenza/Optra one

only thing is that u will need to change the connector u can get them for less than $10 each
and the SRT-4 are returnless too

DSM are very cheap and 450cc's good for 250-275 hp with stock bump
2G has dual pattern spray better than the blue tops (1G)

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 6:58 pm

Delphi didn't show an injector appication for the SRT-4..... but then again... they don't show it for the Optra/Forenza either.

If the SRT-4 injectors were the same dimensionally.... they would make a nice upgrade.... and there are guys upgrading their stock SRT-4 engines so I bet you can find them used on EBAY.

Hmmmm.... after looking at them.... I'm not sure if they would work.... definitly a different shape and connector.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/577cc-Fu ... enameZWDVW

Nubira2.2 · Post by **Nubira2.2** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 7:30 pm

i had a set of SRT-4 injectors before
i think they fit in the manifold and fuel rail but they are longer than Nubira injectors
the conector is different but u can change it with no problem

if the forenza injectors are longer then there is no problem with the SRT

i will be installing my 450cc's and the only thing i need to mod is the injector O ring seal in the fuel rail

the one in the manifold fits perfect and the plug is the same

alos i will install the resistor box

exist3nce · Post by **exist3nce** » Sun Dec 24, 2006 11:41 pm

Thanks guys for your input.

I was talking to one of my friends whos quite knowledgeable as well and he says 450cc injectors would be too much..... that the Emanage would not be able to scale them down enough and I would have trouble starting.

So it seems i have 2 choices:

1) Find aftermarket injectors for the 2003 cav/sun which should be direct fit?

2) Get the nubira fuel rail and find "common universal" injectors? (DSM are 450cc which are too much for me, what car are the mopar super 60 from?........... any other good choices?)

It seems option 1 would be the easiest .. What do you guys think? If I can find aftermarket sun/cav I should be set, no luck so far tho.

Nubira2.2 · Post by **Nubira2.2** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:39 am

450cc injectors are not that big
and if you have piggyback (e-manage) u will not have any kind of problem
the DSM came in a 2.0L DOHC 16v engine that has 210hp
u will make more than that for sure

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 2:58 am

Ok..... so your looking for 8psi .... let's say that's going to net you about 200 WHP.... which I will guess as roughly 230hp at the crank.

So with a BSFC of 0.6 and 80% duty cycle... you would be looking for 43.1 lb/hr injectors (453cc)

Lets push the BSFC to 0.65 and 80% duty cycle.... that results in 46.7 lb/hr injectors (491cc)

Let's back off a bit and push the horsepower figure down to 180whp... which I will guess as roughly 210hp at the crank

@0.6 BSFC and 80% DC --> 39.4 lb/hr (413cc)
@0.65 BSFC and 80% DC --> 42.7 lb/hr (448cc)

In case your wondering BSFC = Brake Specific Fuel Consumption... and turbo cars are usually running 0.6 to 0.65 BSFC depending on several factors.

Ok...... so at minimum.... you should be looking for 40lb/hr (420cc) injectors and at maximum 47lb/hr (495cc) injectors

In other words........ Nubira2.2 is bang on saying you should be looking for 450cc injectors

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:11 am

I think your shop was being a little on the low side saying you should be looking for 35lb/hr to 40lb/hr...... if I were you..... I wouldn't get less than 40lb/hr injectors.

When it comes right down to it.... use a bigger injector but don't turn up the regulator pressure.

So many guys/shops immediatly boost the regulator pressure and overdrive the injectors..... the spray pattern is slightly different... and you decrease the flow capacity of your stock fuel pump.

Use the injectors as they were designed.... at 3bar of pressure.

I'm sure they could push some 35lb/hr injectors but why risk it.... your emanage will have no problems adjusting for the extra fuel.

Plus..... if you decide to up the boost.... you can move up a bit without running out of fuel.

If you think about it 43lb/hr (450cc) injectors are only putting out 10% more than 40lb/hr injectors..... that's nothing.... it's when you get up into the 50% difference area (such as 60lb/hr) that you tend to have problems adjusting with an aftermarket system.

Oh... by the way.... I mentioned the Mopar Super60 injectors..... now that I think of it.... I think they are low impedance.... which won't work with the Optra ECU

Hmmmmm..... just a minute...... ummm..... something just occured to me.... if your using Emanage you won't be using the Optra ECU injector driver..... they will be controlled by the Emanage system.

What injectors are suppose to be used with the Emanage???? High or low??

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 3:29 am

e-manage does support both the high impedance and low impediance injectors. Its a matter of changing jumper settings. I'll double check on that, but it is correct if memory serves me well.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 6:06 am

Thanks Tom..... and if I don't talk to you..... merry Christmas.

If it supports both high and low that certainly helps with Injector options.

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:07 am

I just double checked the manual, and I was incorrect. E-Manage Blue only supports high-impediance injectors. This can, however, be easily modified. You need to install 10 Ohm, 10W resistor for each injector. This should solve the problem. I am sure Chris will comment if I am incorrect.

Merry Christmas to you too Chris

Nubira2.2 · Post by **Nubira2.2** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 7:49 am

well the DSM injectors are 2.2ohms

so im gonna use 10ohm 10W resistor one for each injector

BTW Merry Christmas to all

exist3nce · Post by **exist3nce** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:29 am

Yes Merry Christmas to everyone! Especially those who have been helping me so much in this project!

So I was searching for those aftermarket cavalier injectors.......... I'm assuming you were referring to the (American) Ecotec 2.2L which seems to have started in 2002.

check out this link..... direct bolt on kit for the cavalier for the same boost as me - including injectors .......
http://www.turbo-kits.com/cavalier_turbo_kits.html

If I were to contact this company maybe see if I could get the injectors (or maybe something a little larger)........ those injectors should fit right in, correct?

Looking a bit further..... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_Ecotec_engine#Ecotec

It would seem that the new 2.2L Ecotec (L61) is identical to the supercharged 2.0L Ecotec (LSJ) used in the Cobalt SS and Saturn Ion Redline, with the main difference being the stroke (94.6 mm vs 86 mm).

So maybe I could get ahold of some stock Cobalt SS injectors, and based on this they should work too?

Am I on the right path here?

Nubira 2.2: I don't have anything against the DSM injectors lol......... I'm just trying to find the most bolt-on solution possible.

exist3nce · Post by **exist3nce** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 8:58 am

just found this too.....

44lb injectors direct fit for upgrading the cobalt SS.

http://www.cobaltperformanceparts.com/i ... 9e87adb9ba

and this.....

Turbo 2003 Cavalier in SCC mag, with the important bit being "Store-bought items used are a K&N filter, a Borla muffler, Borla Boomer series exhaust tip and Fel-Pro 36-lb/hr fuel injectors, which work with the stock fuel rail and lines."

http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/roadt ... rbo_sport/

Nubira2.2 · Post by **Nubira2.2** » Mon Dec 25, 2006 5:10 pm

bolt ons are the best choice
but not as cheap
in my case i have to get the best bang for the buck and $80 450cc injectors with resistor box
is the best choice
and for those that are in budget projects it is too

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 4:44 am

Look at the picture I posted for that injector and look at the Cobalt injectors..... they are different.

The cobalt uses the "stubby"ones instead of the "long"ones.

It only listed an application for 03-05 Sunfire/Cavalier...... just because they had the same engine... it does not mean they are identical in every way (such as fuel system)

Year to year GM will sometimes change things.

If however you picked up a nubira fuel rail..... then the Cobalt injectors would probably work just fine.... since the injectors look identical to my VXR injectors... which work fine with the nubira fuel rail.

You really need to be carefull and get pictures of the injectors your looking for..... lots of times they just post a "genaric" picture