psi boost system

[get sideways]

I don't know if anyone will respond but i've created a boost system
that creates as much boost and if you want more than a turbo
the idea is being patented right now so I can't tell you exactly
how it works but if such a system were on the market would
you buy it? it makes boost w\out a turbo or supercharger
and can do so w\extremely cold air as well if anyone has anything
to say about this i'd like to hear it.

[DomWoo]

well if it has anything to do with a littel electric motor then its worthless

sounds cool but how much boost can this make? and for how long?

[daewooluvr]

also if it's compressed air, it's gonna be heavy and wont last long...

[Pete Gossett]

The only forced-induction system that I know of, which isn't presently being implemented by *anyone*(AFIK), is a small gas-turbine/turbojet engine used as a constant compressor for the intake.

I know some drag racers of the 1960's experimented with them, and there seems to be a growing popularity of small homebuilt, turbocharger-based gas turbine engines. So it seems that if you could build one of those units, and engineer a way to install it in a car so that it had it's own fuel supply, and a way to remove the super-heated exhaust gasses safely, you would be able to have full boost from the instant you opened the throttle!

Of course, there are other issues involved, too. And it's probably better suited for a race-only vehicle....but it sure would be fun. :P

[get sideways]

as for the amount of boost it can be anywhere from o-40 psi
and you are correct it won't run constant but rather only when you want it more like a nos system so it will be emissions legal for all you guys
worried about smog issues, the complete system will weigh in at under 70 pounds and tank pressure inside a tank aproximately 1 &1\2 feet long
by 8 inches diameter will be above 2,000 psi and no greater than 3,500
psi and will be priced around $1,000 u.s. dollars but this system is still a couple of months away from being produced

[Tim04]

What's in the tank? :twisted:

[Pete Gossett]

Propane?

[daewooluvr]

I bet it's compressed air

[Tim04]

Your probably right.... something like this; which I read about two years ago. This is from Halfbakery.com

pre-compressed-air supercharger
A tank of compressed air which may be fed to engine for rapid accelleration.
The power generated by an internal combustion engine is a function of engine displacement, rotation speed, and intake pressure. In a vehicle without a turbocharger or supercharger, this intake pressure is controlled by the throttle. When the throttle is wide open, intake pressure is nearly equal to ambient atmospheric; when it's closed down, intake pressure is far below atmospheric. A supercharger or turbocharger enhances engine power by increasing the intake pressure above atmospheric. Since an engine will operate more efficiently when intake pressure is near atmospheric than when it is substantially below, a smaller supercharged or turbocharged engine will often be more efficient than a larger non-charged one.
Unfortunately, superchargers and turbochargers take some time to increase the intake pressure on an engine. Turbochargers are worse in that regard since they need to use engine power to provide the extra pressure; until the engine has sped up there may not be much power to drive the turbocharger.

My proposal would be to have a tank of air pressurized by an intermittent-duty compressor. Most of the time, the tank would just sit pressurized and the compressor would be idle. When rapid accelleration was required, however, a valve would open allowing the pressurized air into the vehicle's air intake. The pump would then run until the tank had returned to its normal pressure level.

While the 'charger' itself wouldn't be terribly efficient, it would allow for a smaller-displacement engine to better mimic the performance of a larger one. Since cars generally spend relatively little time at maximum accelleration, the fuel economy win of the smaller engine (which can be run closer to atmospheric pressure when at cruise speed) should more than make up for the waste of energy during moments of peak accelleration.


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supercat, Mar 13 2002

If this is what your talking about.....simply put. NOS is better, colder, denser. lighter, cheaper, and makes people happy when they see the pretty blue bottle.

I hope it is something new, but what could be new? If you have come up with a way to make this more efficient thats great, but 2000psi... phew!!

Let me know if i'm off base.

[DomWoo]

not only that man, when you go from no boost to boost instantly that is going to fark something up, you would have to have the dis2 box by msd and run it with a switched retard, if only our ignitions would handle it

[get sideways]

tim you are very close and it is safer than nos and much much cheaper to
run and it can be cooled similar to the way nos is and can come in a bottle resembling nos and its true if running higher amounts of boost
you'd need a retard switch which is why i'm going to use a 2 stage
boost controller and that should help quite a bit , but i'f running lower
boost you can probably get away w\ the factory ecu taking care of buisiness. the tank pressure itself is what will top out at 2,000 psi or more but from there on out it is regulated down to a manageble amount of pressure so thus the PSI-BOOST system is created
good name or no?

[PrecisionBoost]

This won't work..... period..... I try not to be a "Jack Ass" and shoot people down but this idea is just plain dumb.

It's worse than the useless EBay electric supercharger !!!

Perhaps you might argue with me but I will tell you why.... PV=nRT (better know as the ideal gas law)

Number One....... decompressing gas from that kind of pressure causes an extreme drop in temperature which will cause severe problems with expansion ratios between different metals.

Basicly you risk cracking your intake, block and anything else that is hot before the super cold gas hits it.

Number Two....... gasoline must vaporize for the engine to function.

If the intake air is something stupid like -125 degrees Celcius the gas in the cylinders won't ignite because the Gasoline will not be vaporized.

Cool air charge around 15 degrees Celcius is perfect ..... the colder it is the more problems you have.... which is why most cars have wonderfull things like EGR valves to help heat things up on cold days.

Sure you could run the compressed air through an air to air intercooler (which would warm up the air) but you could never get it to a resonable temperature with the kind of air volume required to run a car at 6000RPM.

If you honestly want me to prove this I can..... I went through two different Engineering programs (Petroleum and Electronics) so I have a background in several Chemical Engineering courses (which this falls under)

In fact I can see my CHEM ENG 243 text book on the shelf from here.... nice big white " Thermodynamics... an Engineering Approach"

I really don't like it when guys say they are going to patent something like this..... unless you have a few hundred thousand dollars kicking around you don't have a chance in hell of patenting the methodology.

By the way I also run a very sucessfull manufacturing company so I do know what is involved in this type of process.

[PrecisionBoost]

Say you had 50lbs of air compressed into a small cylinder....which would make the whole thing weigh about 75lbs (roughly)

At STP (regular pressure =14.7psi) 50 lbs of compressed air only represents about 625 cubic feet of air.

So if you wanted to run a boost level of say 15psi your only looking at about 312 cubic feet of useable air.

Given a 2.0L engine ideally uses about 100 liters of air per second at 6000RPM (which is about 3.5 Cubic feet per second) you would be lucky to get more than a minute and a half worth of time out of that bottle ( if you are lucky and could manage to bring the gas temperature up to an ambient temperature level)

If the air was colder than ambient your gas density would increase which would result in less total volume of useable air.

Hmmm..... 0.5 Cuft of compressd air turned into 625 Cu ft in a minute or so..... talk about a major flow rate....you would need special valves to make that work and a regulator system to handle that kind of drop in pressure and that kind of output would be very expensive.

These are all very rough numbers..... and I didn't check for mistakes since I have to get going but it still sounds crazy to me.

Now on the other hand if you had the compressed air running a thermally separated turbine to create boost.... that would work since you don't care how cold the power turbine makes.

[Efratech]

i was just waiting for that answer... thats what i love about you Erfinder... you know your stuff...

[get sideways]

thanks for the response erfinder but why did it work on the three
test vehicles its equipped on? i'm not trying to be a smart-@$$
but why did it work what you are saying should be correct but
the system has no problems so far??????