T22 VS C20XE

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:01 am

Guys who had experiences before in this, we all know that the T22 is 2.2L and the C20XE is only 2.0L, but why does the T22 is only 136hp and the C20XE is 150hp ?????

what is the principles which makes the C20XE much stronger than the T22 althought the T22 is more in the displacement???

anyone knows any info. plz tell me about it...i appreciate ur help guys

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 11:25 am

high compression pistons

MMamdouh

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:05 pm

only?????

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:26 pm

and another question, as the papers say, when u got two engines 2.0L and 2.2L, when u make them both achieve a high compression, i mean, when u make both engines become 10.5 : 1 as an example, u should get more HP and Torque from the 2.2L more than 2.0L now, am i right??

cuz now u deleted the principles of the comparison when u made both of them become the same compression, so we are back to the C.C. law now, am i right?

one last question, when i get the C20XE pistons and i know its 10.5:1 and use it in the T22, will it stay also 10.5:1 or less or higher??

PLZ somebody read this carefully and give me a spacified answer

appreciate guys

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:34 am

There is one another factor. The C20XE had superior-flowing cylinder head designed by Cosworth (aka CosCast, as stamped on the head). Also, it was designed with less restrictive emmision specs back in the days, as well it was tuned to take advantage of the high-octane gas (98+) Also, C20XE featured factory mandrel bend headers, as opposed cast iron on T22. Further, the intake was pretty much 'performance' back in the days. Also, the motor featured Mahle forged pistons. Still, if you consider 1989 design made 156hp, and stock car did 15.4s 1/4 mile pass (better than stock Integra Type R), this was one hell of a motor.

C20XE rods/pistons will not work in T22 because:
- crank is of different design (big end rods are narrower)
- T22 uses press-pin pistons vs fully floating pin in C20XE

You could get more power out of T22 is you:
- port/polish your cylinder head and install custom oversized valves
- custom headers
- cams
- possibly a piggy-back system

Hope this helps!

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 12:56 am

GsiTurbo wrote:C20XE rods/pistons will not work in T22 because:
- crank is of different design (big end rods are narrower)
- T22 uses press-pin pistons vs fully floating pin in C20XE

i dont understand what is the diff. between press-pin VS fully floated pin, cant i use the C20XE pistons with thier pins to the T22 rods? as i wanted only to change the pistons, not the rods also cuz i dont want to change the stroke, just to keep it 2.2L not 2.0L, there is no way to use the C20XE pistons in the T22 engine?? noway at all??? no matter which pins i will use??

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Mon Aug 13, 2007 7:53 am

GsiTurbo wrote: You could get more power out of T22 is you:
- port/polish your cylinder head and install custom oversized valves
- custom headers
- cams
- possibly a piggy-back system

what about the C20XE cams?... can it be used on the T22? and if yes will they be any better than the stock T22 cams?

MMamdouh

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 1:18 am

mezomaster wrote: i dont understand what is the diff. between press-pin VS fully floated pin, cant i use the C20XE pistons with thier pins to the T22 rods? as i wanted only to change the pistons, not the rods also cuz i dont want to change the stroke, just to keep it 2.2L not 2.0L, there is no way to use the C20XE pistons in the T22 engine?? noway at all??? no matter which pins i will use??

In a press setup:
The piston pin is pressed under pressure into the connecting rod. This is what is holding the pin in place. Special press and high-temp over is required to extract the pin

Fully floating:
The pin is free to rotate inside the bushing within the connecting rod. The pin is being held in place by two special circlips located on each side of the piston.

The builder of my motor refused any experimenting with using floating pins inside the press pin rod - can it be done? I dont know.

MMamdouh wrote: what about the C20XE cams?... can it be used on the T22? and if yes will they be any better than the stock T22 cams?

The two cylinder heads are different - I do not believe the cams are interchangeble (but then again, I simply dont know). Further, the XE cylinder is distributor driven, hence the exhaust cam is longer and extends to the outside of the cylinder head providing the distributor hook-up

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 9:12 am

GSI, u was completely helpful, thank u very very much and i appreciate ur help, although there was alot of bad news

do u suggest a different engine to swap eather than the T22SED which will provide me with more power? remember in our country the engine must be daewoo engine so i cannot use opel engines in my car but i can use some parts inside the engine from opel, but the block only must be daewoo

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:13 am

ive heard of floater bushings being pressed into non floater rods. im not usre if they do it on 4 bangers, but the big v8 guys do it ffrom time to time (if my memory serves me corrrectly[dont be suprised if it doesnt])

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:27 am

and here comes the lights of hope to appear between shadows of darkness

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 10:28 am

GUYS, aprove in what mofo said or tell me it cant happen

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 4:24 pm

"GUYS, approve in what mofo said or tell me it cant happen"

yes and no, i had my stock T22 rod bored at the top end an oil supply hole was added to support a floating pin.

i also had them cryo treated for a little extra long life.

that is were the yes came it and here is the no.

i only used the stock rods because...
(1) there are no 2.2 performance rods available,
(2) i've been working on this same T22 since 2004 and this is the only corner i've cut FOR NOW (i've become impatient),
(3) the rods that i plan to use after the motor has been broken in cost $800+,
(4) i'm confident enough in the treatments on the rods that they will more then stand up for the break-in period

long story short, you can have the stock rods fitted for a floating pin but i wouldn't use them for much more then the break-in.

garrett

PS. out of curiosity, what all have you bot?

mezomaster · Post by **mezomaster** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:23 pm

as i told u in the other post, i think about using the C20XE pistons in the T22SED engine so i can raise the T22 compression ratio from 9.2 or 9.5 to 10.5 so this means it will catch up the hp in the C20XE and even more cuz the T22 is 2.2L.

i didnt understand and sorry for being a lil dump right now LOL. u mean if i did that fitting job for the C20XE pistons to the T22 rods, it wont last for long time and it will damage after the break in?

gse_turbo · Post by **gse_turbo** » Tue Aug 14, 2007 5:47 pm

mezomaster wrote: u mean if i did that fitting job for the C20XE pistons to the T22 rods, it wont last for long time and it will damage after the break in?

more or less. no one as really pushed the T22 like the T20, X20, Z20, so it's hard to say how long the rods will last. all i do know is that it would suck if you or i over estimated the strength of the rods and they broke and destroy everything else in the engine.

if you plan to run naturally aspirated and only bump up to 10.5:1 then you could be ok. just make sure they put a bushing in the top end of your rods if they convert from press to floating pins.

there is one other option you could try for pistons. if the C20NE was available were you are then you could look for performance pistons for that and have the valve reliefs cut in those. using the flat top pistons from the C20NE would give you 12.0:1 compression.

also keep in mind that stock C20XE pistons will not fit in a T22SE. you will need ever sized C20 pistons for it to work.

garrett