What other mods can i do...?

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:47 pm

Kinda a newbie question. But what are some things i can do (engine work) to get more hp that wernt worth doing on a nearly stock engine but will be worth doing on the f/i engine? Im thinking like port + polish. Give me guestamated prices and hp gains. W/ the turbo im hoping to be getting bout 200whp.

Anyone? lol.. im gonna put these things on my x-mas list. My Dads all into my racing and track events and he wants to help me build my car for it..but doesnt wanna spoil me. So things that are just done to the engine (like not cosmetic things.. or even wheels) he might be willing to spend alotta money on.

Thanks,
Danny

daewooluvr · Post by **daewooluvr** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:48 pm

Balanced a Blueprinted engine build with forged internals set up for F/I

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:52 pm

ditto

turbo 2.0 with forged internals you could easily be putting out 200, maybe as much as 250 if you tuned it right

i would also invest in a wideband sensor w/ air/fuel gauge... makes tuning MUCH easier as far as in car turbo timing, etc

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:53 pm

daewooluvr wrote:Balanced a Blueprinted engine build with forged internals set up for F/I

I dont know if ill ever go forged internals.. i can get enough hp w/o turning up boost high enough for forged stuff. Really 250whp is probably way too much on fwd.. w/ an LSD. But even at 200whp hp a LSD will probably be required before i wanna go any higher

What exactly is a blueprint? I know its hella expensive...so is balancing isnt it? I pretty sure a blueprint is beyond dyno tuning, right?

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:54 pm

13psi is the highest ill go w/o upgrading internals...if even that. 13psi MAX. I should be able to get 250whp on that w/ 110octane

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:55 pm

that seems like a lot on stock guts...

arp bolts are a must then (mains, con rod bolts, head studs)

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 7:59 pm

Audacityracing wrote:that seems like a lot on stock guts...

arp bolts are a must then (mains, con rod bolts, head studs)

Yeah arp bolts...sorry.. even on 8psi thats pretty much a must

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:21 pm

You need to upgrade your ignition system.... MSD makes a number of decent products.

Better ignition will help you burn all that extra air and fuel your dumping in with the turbo..... without it .... your car will feel "soggy"

What is "soggy"? The oposite of responsive.

The car might not gain much peak horsepower but the throttle response will make it feel faster and give you more confidence.

I would also suggest the purchase of an aftermarket piggy back system such as the SMT-6..... there is some really decent deals on right now.... I think Tom and I will be getting a couple if not more.

So..... upgraded ignition..... upgraded fuel and ignition .... what else?

A really decent wideband is not a bad idea..... and a exhaust temp sensor would be a good thing to have.

Lightened flywheel..... better clutch (the stock one sucks...which you know allready )

If I were you I'd look into a grounding kit..... perhaps a performance radiator and metal fans ( since the turbo will be close and could melt the plastic )

Engine mounts, tranny mounts.

Port and polish might give you a few horsepower.... but I don't know if you need that much head work if your going with stock internals.

Head work really pays of on a naturally aspirated engine but a turbo will pretty much push through what ever you let it.

So.... stock head with 15psi would make the same power as a modified cylinder head at 13psi.

An MLS gasket is a must.

There are lots of other things....... you should list what you allready have or allready plan on purchasing.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:32 pm

Got the SMT-6, 42lbs/hr injectors (dont think ill need to upgrade
the fuel pump), got a bit lighter flywheel, 6puck clutch, 1200lbs pressure plate (yeah.. a lil overboard), rear engine mount upgrade, exhaust temp, oil temp. I might be missing something here.. but thats the most of it

How can i upgrade the ignition though?

What would be the advatage of the wideband? Im having the tunning done by a shop.

Will a radiator from any other car work okay? i dont see why not. I wanna look into one for a civic.. i know they have some that are half the size of stock, half the weight, and something like double the cooling.

Tom said the MLS gasket shouldnt be a must unless i run closer to 15psi all the time. I dont really plan on going above 12-13psi on the track

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:39 pm

Keep in mind that power is based upon boost....

sure porting and polishing will give you more power..... but your power is limited by the stock internals..... so by adding on all kinds of extra stuff it will only mean that your turning down your boost more..... so it's a waist of money.

I hope you get what I mean....

If your making 200whp at 10psi or 200whp at 13psi it makes no difference.... so doing stuff to gain power won't really help you.

I would concentrate on items to make the engine safer at that 200Whp.

Ignition upgrades help to stop detonation

Fuel system upgrades allow you to help stop detonation

Grounding wires let the electronic components work better.... which results in the ability to help stop detonation

Another thing that will help stop detonation is Wideband Air Fuel and Exhaust temp sensor..... because you will know when things are getting close to the limit.

One new thing..... intercooler sprayer.... water, CO2 or Nitrous....these will help make the intercooler more efficent and drop the temperature of the air going into the intake.

One thing that is debateable is a water mister..... which sprays a fine water mist into the intake system..... the water absorbs the heat and helps with detonation..... the down side is that it decreases power.... but in your case that really doesn't matter.... your limited by what your internals can take..

I don't know if you need it or not..... but your stock piston compression is fairly high and detonation is the #1 thing you have to look out for.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 8:46 pm

oh yeah.. didnt even think of that. I understand.

Forgot to mention.. ground wires are upgraded.

Isnt the exhaust temp sensor and oil temp enough though to know when things are getting to the limits?

Yeah i also forgot about the ice water mist on the intercooler... im still trying to work that out with the race tracks. I think they'll let me if i can prove its safe and no water will drip onto the track.

How can i upgrade the ignition though?

daewooluvr · Post by **daewooluvr** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 9:34 pm

Erfinder@PrecisionBoost wrote:Port and polish might give you a few horsepower.... but I don't know if you need that much head work if your going with stock internals.

Head work really pays of on a naturally aspirated engine but a turbo will pretty much push through what ever you let it.

With the tiny ports of our heads we'll want a port and polish to decrease the chance of compressor surge.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 10:46 pm

compressor surge from small ports?

Hmmm.... I don't think I've ever run accross that kind of statement before.... I don't really know much about the effect of port size on the turbo compressor.

It's an interesting thought.... I will see what I can dig up about port size and compressor surge.

Larger ports = more power at the top end but your limiting your top end power to 200whp which is based on boost..... so in my opinion you should be trying to make more power in the lower part of the power band so that it's nice and flat.

If you made 200Whp at 2300RPM and kept that all the way to redline.... that would be ideal.

The smaller the ports.... the more power you make in lower rpm bands.

I'd keep the ports stock.

I know this sounds wierd.... but your not trying to make maximum power.... you are limiting your power to keep the stock internals safe.

So.... you need to concentrate on power throughout the RPM band.... not "peak" power.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:00 pm

My personal opinion is that water isn't the best "cooler" for you...... I'd go with a compressed gas such as CO2, compressed air or Nitrous.

With a gas system you can't be disqualified...... water is however grounds for getting kicked off the track.

CO2 and Compressed air are cheap..... when the gas is released from the pressurized canister it comes out very cold..... I can't remember exactly but I think it's around -65 degrees.... so it's possible to have colder air entering the intake than the that of the ambient air temperature.

Some Air/Water hybrid intercoolers use a presurized gas to cool the water which then cools the air going into the intake.... these intercoolers can have a thermal efficency higher than 100% (due to the fact that it cools the air below ambient air temp)

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Thu Dec 08, 2005 11:17 pm

kinkyllama wrote:How can i upgrade the ignition though?

The basic upgrade would be to add one of my "driver" circuits and run an MSD ignition box like the DIS-2.

The simple version gives you more spark power and multiple discharges at lower RPM (helps the car run smoother )

Think of a spark like a candle..... too much boost will blow out the spark and you won't get a full burn of the fuel.

Think of the MSD ignition system as a blow torch..... boost won't "blow" it out and the fuel will burn better.