T22SED Engine redline RPM

Big P · Post by **Big P** » Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:35 pm

Hey guys, just curious to find out what is the factory redline for the 2.2L leganza motor? Thanks for any info, Paul Moore

Post by **Efratech** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 3:48 pm

i dont have a 2.2 but its no more than 6500.

my limiter is set at 7400 on my 20XE.

Big P · Post by **Big P** » Wed Sep 07, 2005 11:38 pm

what have you done to your engine that would allow a 7400 RPM redline, if you don't mind me asking?

Post by **Efratech** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:11 am

i've a hybrid in my management system, im using an OBDI Honda management, including sensors, throttle body and ignition. I also have a custom made intake manifold but the internals are stock.

My mechanic has the skill to turn the stock OBDI honda management into a fully programable unit.

Big P · Post by **Big P** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 2:33 am

So the engine redline RPM is not limited by the mechanical aspect of the camshaft/lifters, etc.? Can you justify a redline of 7400 RPM? What I mean by that is will your engine make more power at that RPM? If your engine makes peak power at say 7000 RPM, then spinning it to 7400 won't really do any good.

Post by **Efratech** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 3:01 am

it still pushes hard to all the way to the limiter...

mechanically i can go to 7750 but i dont want to go that far.

this engine really likes to rev.

GsiTurbo · Post by **GsiTurbo** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 4:58 am

I wouldnt increase the RPM limit on the stroker engine, unless the internals are prepped. This will put more stress on the rods than running 20PSI of boost...especially on a stroker engine like the T22SED. For comperative purposes, SRT-4's redline (its a 2.4 DOHC stroker engine) is 6400 rpm. Below is a Dynojet run of one of such vehicles.

Also, conrods and pistons in the Efrain's C20XE are much stronger, and designed to handle such RPM limits.

Tom

Big P · Post by **Big P** » Thu Sep 08, 2005 10:59 am

Well, I do plan on using custom forged internals with ARP rod and main bolts. That takes care of the bottom end. How do you get around valve float at 7400+ RPM?

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 8:43 pm

There are a number of stronger valve spring options you can explore.... including dual springs.... this will help with the Valve float and they are a fairly cheap upgrade.

If you want to get serious there are some kits that will allow you to go up something crazy ( I think it was 12,000 RPM )..... it was a German tuning company.... I think it was for the newer Z20LET engine.... I'm not sure but I think the heads are the same basic design... very expensive upgrade.... I think it was something like 5000 Euro.

Convert to titanium valves components, uprated springs and crank her up past 10,000 RPM!!!!

Audacity Racing · Post by **Audacity Racing** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:22 pm

there is a company here in my town that does custom setups...

instead of having a cam, you actually have a tiny crank that controls valve movement. the ducatti motorcycles have this feature. we're seen them take fully forged and biult hondas to 17,000rpm before!

Big P · Post by **Big P** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 9:34 pm

Erfinder: What exactly are these 'stronger valve spring' options? Are you suggesting custom made pieces or are there already better valve springs on the market. I was actually going to look into some valve srpings with higher seat pressures for my turbo project. I'm afraid that at 25 PSI the excessive boost pressure will want to force open the intake valves and/or not allow them to close all the way resulting in *catastrophic* engine failure.

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:16 pm

OK i don't like to be the guy that upset the apple cart but... WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF HAVING A RED LINE @ 7400rpm??

we alredy discussed that so many times and we all reached the conclusion that it is usless as the engine max power is reached before the OEM red line mark so spending loads of cash on upgrades and mods to extend the rev ban is usless... right?

MMamdouh

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sat Sep 10, 2005 10:31 pm

mmamdouh wrote:OK i don't like to be the guy that upset the apple cart but... WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF HAVING A RED LINE @ 7400rpm??

we alredy discussed that so many times and we all reached the conclusion that it is usless as the engine max power is reached before the OEM red line mark so spending loads of cash on upgrades and mods to extend the rev ban is usless... right?

MMamdouh

Yeah but with the right mods (and money) there is eventually more power to be made at higher rpms. At least thats what ive been told.

Big P · Post by **Big P** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 2:13 am

mmamdouh wrote:OK i don't like to be the guy that upset the apple cart but... WHAT IS THE BENEFIT OF HAVING A RED LINE @ 7400rpm??

we alredy discussed that so many times and we all reached the conclusion that it is usless as the engine max power is reached before the OEM red line mark so spending loads of cash on upgrades and mods to extend the rev ban is usless... right?

MMamdouh

I completely understand what you are saying, and your opinion is validated in most(N/A engine configuration) cases. If I'm not mistaken, the redline SHOULD be roughly above the peak engine power so that by the time you shift into the next gear, the engine RPM's will fall down into the peak range. Eventually, increasing the engine RPM's will make no more power due to the airflow capabilities/limits of the intake and cylinder head or its mechanical limits ie valve float. But for my personal project I will see more power increases with 7000+ RPM's as long as the turbo can provide the boost and the engine itself can handle the pressure(pun intended)

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Sep 11, 2005 4:47 am

As usual.... I would suggest talking to Tom@360 Dynamics as he should be able to source you some stronger valve springs from Europe.

You can tune your engine to make lots of horsepower at high RPM but it will allways cost you power and driveability at lower RPM levels.

To make a huge power gain through increasing the redline you need to do some serious head work to make it breath better.

So enlarging the intake and exhaust ports, intalling larger valves with undercut shafts, multiangle valve & seat job, longer cam duration / lift and polishing will let you make more power at higher RPM.

The down side is that the engine might not run at all under 1000 RPM... and at 1500 it would be "lumpy" with very little power.

This is due to the fact that you will have decreased port velocity at low RPM in order to make the engine be able to breath better at high RPM.

Just remember that horsepower is just Torque X RPM

So if you have a nice flat Torque curve from 3000RPM to 10,000RPM you will end up making way more power near redline.

Lets say you manage to make 200hp at 5000 RPM then in theory you would make 400hp at 10,000 RPM

This could only happen if the torque levels stayed the same all the way from 5000RPM to 10,000RPM.

In the real world this would never ever happen..... as your RPM increase the amount of air/exhaust going through the intake and exhaust increase dramaticly which ends up causing restrictions (which is why you need to open up the ports to make power at higher RPM )

So in reality if you made 200hp at 5000RPM you would proably make something in the range of 330hp to 400hp at 10,000 RPM.

This is what "all motor" guys do...... they take the redline as high as they can and tune it to make maximum power near the redline.

The cars often need help to get started and need to be idled at several thousand RPM just to keep running.... which isn't a problem when your on a drag strip but you sure wouldn't want to drive it on the street like that.

For a turbo car power is typically found by increasing boost as opposed to RPM.... you can tune a turbo for high RPM but it ends up making power in a very small RPM band ( it could make 100hp at 5000RPM... and jump up to 400hp by 6500RPM and back down to 100hp at 7500RPM )

If your into drag racing and the car never sees the street this is just fine..... you gear your car so that it allways stays inside this power band during shifts.