Timing belt went, need help

[kevindeeley12]

Hi, my 2001 Daewoo Lanos 1.5 liter's timing belt just went, and i know there can be a lot of underlying damage to the engine when this happens. Does anyone here have any similar experiences, or opinions on what to do? Should I replace the timing belt? Is the engine a Non-Interference, that way the valve's would not be damaged underneath? I am getting a new car regardless but would sell this if fixable..


Thanks a lot - Kevin.

[MMamdouh]

it is an interference engine and odds are you bent some of your valve... you have to take off the cylinder head and inspect the damages

MMamdouh

[PrecisionBoost]

MMamdouh, Are you sure the 1.5L SOHC is interference engine?

I thought it was a non-interfering engine just like the 1.6L SOHC

[PrecisionBoost]

I can help you out if you decide to change your mind and want to drop a 2.0 turbo into that chassis and make it blow the doors off most of the cars on the road.

I'm in Edmonton.... I have a freshly rebuilt 2.0L 8V turbo engine that would slip right in.

I think it has about 5000km on it.

Stock power would be 165hp but it's easily bumped up to roughly 225hp at the crank.


I also have a 1.6L DOHC engine from an Aveo that would fit in nicely, which would give you roughly 106hp

Think it had about 80,000km on it


Lastly I have a practically brand new 2.0L 16V from a Chev Optra that will bolt right in, which would give you around 120hp

It has 9000km on it.


Of course it all depends on whether you are interested in keeping your Lanos or not.

[Trey05Woo]

Only valve hating daewoo 4 bangers are the 1.6l duals, the 2.0/2.2ls...

Anything else will not bend valves

And PB im still doubtful you can drop a 1.6 aveo in a Woo without significant reconfiguring of the engine management system, or aftermarket controller.

[MMamdouh]

MMamdouh, Are you sure the 1.5L SOHC is interference engine?

I thought it was a non-interfering engine just like the 1.6L SOHC

100% sure my man... i went into an elongated discussion with Richard (AKA Tango) few years back as he got a racer with a 1.5 SOHC as well and he broke his T belt and didn't bend any valves and i told him this is impossible as this is an interference engine and i told him that each and every lanos i came across that broke the T belt ended up with bent valves... we reached the conclusion that the 1.5 SOHC with compression ratio 8.5:1 found on a racer is non interference engine while the 1.5 SOHC with compression ratio of 9.5:1 found on a lanos is an interference engine indeed

MMamdouh

[PrecisionBoost]

Only valve hating daewoo 4 bangers are the 1.6l duals, the 2.0/2.2ls...

Anything else will not bend valves

And PB im still doubtful you can drop a 1.6 aveo in a Woo without significant reconfiguring of the engine management system, or aftermarket controller.

Perhaps all I need to say is that I am an electronics engineering technologist, the kind of person that designs engine management systems for a living.

I'm the kind of guy that teaches advanced mechanics courses on engine management theory, sensors, communications protocols.


Use of the 1.5L engine management would be easiest, it is a very simple management system that is easily adapted through a slight change in fuel pressure and a couple of sensor modifications.

I can make every single 1.6L DOHC sensor act exactly identical to every single 1.5L SOHC sensor.... it doesn't matter if it's a pulsed signal or a resistive/capacitive value.

The hardware required to modify a pulse signal is less than $3, it can be done via discrete components or via PIC microcontroller.


If worse came to worse it would be a matter or a weekend job to integrate a standalone engine management such as megasquirt.



As far as the 1.5L SOHC the compression difference does seem to make sense, last time I pulled one apart I don't think I remember seeing valve relief cutouts which is why I was thinking it was non-interfereing.

I have to pull the 1.5L/1.6L hybrid from my Red Lanos one of these days as it had no oil pressure after the swap and I did not feel like taking it apart a second time

The lanos is snowed in right now with one flat tire so I haven't been able to work on it at all.

I'm thinking I will drop in the 2.0L 8V turbo from one of my Passport Optimas

I thought about a 1.6L DOHC turbo ( 05 Aveo engine ) but the 2.0L 8V was a fairly fresh rebuild and it's a shame to let it sit there and rot.

[Trey05Woo]

I just don't see how its possible to get a UART network node to run class II which is the most important difference between the two vehicles. (Daewoo UART Aveo Class II) Not to mention the transaxles 4t40 vs 40le and the TCMS integrated into the pcms...

You would need to swap to manual as the Daewoo module would not be able to run the Aveo...

Also the aveo uses two TPS's and throttle by wire, the UART module does not even have the drivers present to run these...

Take into consideration the Aveo 1.6l is the same performing piss poor 100hp econobox found in the woo with a friendlier and quicker running engine management system... all that trouble for what your originally started with? Why... Plus none of these aftermarket systems are emissions legal you compromise there as well...

[PrecisionBoost]

I know you are a really experienced smart guy, but you really have no idea how easy it really is to convert/manipulate/create signals based upon input data.

You are taught black box repairs, if it doesn't work remove it and replace it.

I'm the kind of guy that takes the black box, disassembles it and repairs the damaged discrete components causing the malfunction.

I'm the kind of guy that designs communication protocols.

Hopefully you get what I'm saying.... my knowledge of electronics is simply one large step above yours.... you replace components in a system, I design systems and decide which components are suitable

Equate it to a mechanical engineers knowledge versus a journeyman metalworker.

The metal worker knows everything there is to know about assembling structures but couldn't calculate the tension/compression/shear forces within a series of connected beams to decide the grade and quantity of fasteners required to keep the structure from failing.

[PrecisionBoost]

I think your making an assumption about the transaxle, I do not know if it is an auto or manual but the bright thing to do is to use the 1.5L SOHC Lanos ECU to run the 1.6L DOHC Aveo motor

You would keep the transaxle/gearbox that is already in the Lanos, you would simply bolt up the engine to what ever is already in there.

That is to say there is no issue with the TCM because your keeping the same transmission and ECU combination.


Your confused about the drive by throttle, my 1.6L Aveo engine does not have drive by throttle as it's from an older aveo that uses good old throttle cable.

Even so, if the Aveo engine I have did have drive by throttle the bright thing to do would be to simply adapt the factory lanos throttle body for use on the Aveo intake.

That is probably 30 minutes worth of work if the bolt patterns are the same, two hours if they are not as I would have to create an adapter plate as an interface between the two components.


As far as emissions, you have no idea what your talking about as your not from a western Canadian province such as myself and kevindeeley12

Again your assuming too much, there are no emission testing requirements in our two provinces.

Even if there were programs like other provinces they will allow you to install a newer ULEV (1.6) engine in place of an older TLEV (1.5L )

That is to say the Lanos is set for TLEV and that would be easy enough to pass.


As far as the 1.6L DOHC being a "piss poor econobox" again you must not reading many of the informative posts on this forum.

This "piss poor econobox" is capable of 148 BHP ( Lotus working with GM ) with modest work, with a great deal of work it's capable of 241 BHP ( SBD Motorsports )

What makes it such an "econobox" is the management system and low compression due to the piss poor gasoline cheap ass north americans want to shove in their cars.


Perhaps you don't like what I have to say on this subject, each person is entitled to their opinion, but I would hope you would be a little less pessimistic about the potential of these engines.


In short, my 1.5L SOHC / 1.6L SOHC hybrid I put together a while back had a shot high mileage oil pump so I need to throw something into the lanos to get it mobile again.

Just because I'd like to show fellow Canadians that a 1.6L Aveo engine can be swapped into a 1.5L Lanos I think I will go ahead and make it work.

There is still a ton of snow on the ground, so I probably won't get to it for a while but I figure it should be a simple "weekend" project.

[Trey05Woo]

Well the point I was making in my post is that the TC is looking to get his car running as CHEAPLY as possible for RESELL purposes. As he claims he will be buying a new car entirely, and will be looking to sell his car if he can get it running for cheap.

The answer to that is not an Aveo transplant as that would cost $$$ in fabrication and customization. This was also posted in the engine board, not performance...

And I see your viewpoint, but understand I'm far from your "factory change it if its broke tech" I actually left the industry for that reason, because I like to find out the why and how things break and fail, and well in the dealer you dont have the time, nor resources to do this... Its why I got into engineering myself. We do live in different providences, and things ARE different here in the states. Believe me that I say its not costable to swap to an aveo (atleast here in the USofA) because of the work involved, and emission requirements. I have researched this throughly. Its a very involved project, requiring custom harnesses, programming, fabrication, etc... I'm not dismissing your knowledge, but its not as simple project as you believe. This is heavily involved, and again FOR WHAT? When you can just build up your Daewoo with the same results. It just doesn't make sense, and not costable, and the Aveo engine really has no significant advantages over the 1.6l in the Woos...

And for the typical american customer who sees the woo for what it is: a point a to point b grocery getter, they are not trying to hear what it would cost to do a swap for basically the same results. Not to mention yea you can get 145hp out of it or w/e but for what? So you can go and run into some 15 yo punk with a b20 block, and a b18 head in a del sol and blow your doors off, and who probably spent less money and work?

I'm not dismissing the potential of the 1.6l I just realize there are better and cheaper alternatives out there. Not to mention more reliable ones as well. Daewoos are entry level economy cars, and designed for that purpose. Sure you can upgrade, it but then again you can upgrade anything with time and resources no? Besides, the majority of people come to this board for help on getting their cars running right, not for performance. Shit half the topics on here are people crying their cars dont idle right, my check engine is flashing ahhhhhhh!!!!! My car just died now what??? thats why i came here to provide people with as much information as posible, because when it comes to Daewoo there is a dark tunnel to travel before you find information.

[PrecisionBoost]

Yes, this is an engine topic as opposed to a performance topic, I'm telling my fellow Canadian that a cheap engine swap is possible.

The only way to get a nice cheap low mileage replacement engine is to get one from an Aveo/Wave/Swift.

There is very little fabrication required if one scrounges parts from the 1.6L DOHC A16DMS found in the USA Lanos and a select few 1.6L DOHC found in Canada.

This is the kind of thing a 12 year old can do if they are given step by step instructions on what parts are needed from the A16DMS and what needs to be removed/replaced on the Aveo engine.

The default engine for all Canadian Lanos Hatchback is the 1.5L SOHC ( A15SMS )

The upgrade from a 1.5L SOHC to a 1.6L DOHC would be a noticeable upgrade in power.


As far as running into a "15 yo punk with a b20 block, and a b18 head in a del sol " I can promise you that I can swap in a C20GET and get it running for 1/2 the cost of the Honda.

The C20GET ECU is very simple and it is hackable, that is to say there are people who will gladly reprogram EPROMS just like you would in a Honda

Project Super Swift is absolutely destroying lightly modified Subaru WRX STi's with it's C20GET running 22PSI of boost.

This is a FACTORY GM turbo 2.0L with forged Mahle pistons and the stock Brazilian Block/Crank are good for 600+ WHP

Even at low boost ( 10 PSI ) a completely dead stock C20GET powered Lanos would absolutely kill a naturally aspirated B16/B18


Is a C20GET swap a legal issue for emissions? Yes, but so is a modified B16/B18


The fact remains the Aveo's ULEV 1.6L DOHC is a decent upgrade over the old Lanos TLEV 1.5L SOHC and it would add value to the vehicle.

[PrecisionBoost]

And I see your viewpoint, but understand I'm far from your "factory change it if its broke tech"

Just so we are clear, we all really appreciate you being here Trey05Woo and I'm allways a little agressive with wording when someone says something to contradict me.

People look up to you, when you say something is impossible, impractical or it will cost an arm and a leg then they tend to belive you whether it's true or not.

I would hazzard to guess you don't have much experience with Lanos/Aveo/Astra/Kadett engine swaps, I on the other hand have been involved with a half dozen interesting swaps in the last five years, everything from high powered 2.0L turbo engines to 1.5L/1.6L SOHC hybrids to stock replacements.

We didn't have to fabricate anything in the way of engine mounts, we just used combinations of different parts from different engines available for swap into that chassis.

As an example... the 2.0L C20GET normally is a front mount engine but we simply used the center mount from a Daewoo Nubira.


I look at a Lanos as something with a million engine/gearbox posibilities with a honda civic like aftermarket ( just not here in North America )

You speak as if a 15 yr old could put together a hybrid B16/B18 (which we both know is not the case ) yet you say that the simplest of swaps in a Daewoo are nearly impossible.

The Lanos is an exact copy of the Opel Kadett E / Vauxhall Astra MK2 chassis and there are thousands or even tens of thousands of people who have swapped anything from a 1.2L up to a 3.0L V6 into this exact engine bay.

you name it, it has been done with this chassis.

Sure in the USA the Daewoo Lanos/ Astra MK2 is virtually unknown in North America and there are millions of Honda Civic's on the road, but the point is that the USA is not the center of the universe and it's just as easy to buy a part from the UK as it is from another State within the USA.

The problem with many aftermarket Opel/Vauxhall companies is that North America is such a small market it's really not worth the effort to do the customs paperwork required to send it over to us.

There are however tons of companies that have absolutely zero issue with sending parcels internationally.


Did you know there are dozens of north american cars that have in some way or another a common parts relationship with the Lanos?

You can swap in virtually any of the 1.8L and 2.0L J-Body engines found inbetween 1987 and 1992

Then there is the Chev Chevette and Pontiac Acadian.... did you know those were a predecessor to the Lanos/Astra MK2 /Kadett E ?

You can get cheap parts from various Pontiac, Chevrolet, Saab, Saturn, Isuzu, Suzuki vehicles manufactured between 1979 and 2010

The biggest problem is that people are lazy and have no interest in researching what fits where.

Most people don't even know how to maintain their car and yes we do have a ton of people complaining about their vehicles.

Realisticly if people just took their cars in for service, there would be fewer problems and fewer Lanos's taken out of service due to broken timing belts.

Most dealerships and technicians haven't a clue that a Daewoo Lanos shares 90% of it's parts with other GM vehicles, nor do they care about taking the time to find a service manual.

It's really a sad state of affairs that this GEM of a car is neglected and shunned by North Americans, it has so much potential yet few see it a more than a cheap beater.

[Trey05Woo]

Well when I decided to go into business myself I opted to work on one make or demographic to keep myself as up to date as possible, as cheap as possible. I only really work on german/euro (vw/audi/seat/skudo, benz, bimmer, and land rover, jag, volvo). However my experience with Daewoos comes from my short time working on them at the dealership and customers who have now moved on to other vehicles. Im aware of the broad range of makes/models/engines from GM Korea but I'm not as tuned to the specifics because well my chances of working on them are next to none, and frankly I don't even have the time to learn if i really wanted to.
You are dead right on the latter part of your post the Lanos is a pretty reliable vehicle if service intervals are followed. Your also correct in that there is very little information out (here in the US) regarding Gm Daewoo. Don't think its as easy to aquire as it might be outside the US. About the only thing readily available are the service and wiring diagrams. And as far as relativity, a true GM tech will know what components are shared because GM has always built cars from the parts bin, rather than say ford who can have 1 model with 3 different configurations in the same year. The 6 liter diesel comes to mind...

Unfortunately I don't work on anything outside the US, and I don't see as many Woos as before. And the customers that come to my shop are just looking to get their cars on the road as fast and as cheap as possible. The Aveo engine is not a direct drop and turn key engine, and no customer would want to pay me the labor required to get it to work with the older UART system. Also keep in mind the Aveo was introduced in 2004 (USA) and was always throttle by wire. Infact I never seen one with the composite manifold and throttle cable. Therefore in my predicament dealing with US customers, you can see how its not just feasible for me to do. Believe me I have researched it throughly, because the Aveo sold over here, and are in abundance as insurance companies usually total them if airbags deploy. Most customers woul and consider me crazy if I explained everything involved in doing so... Understand we are in two completely different spectrums of the industry: repair and cusomization require different approaches, different labor, customer outlook etc.

Trust I know the US is NOT the center of the universe, and that people manage fine without our intervention. But that stereotype also works in reverse, and imported parts can reach rape prices for a US customer, because people automatically assume we have pockets overflowing with money.

I do have one question though, how the hell do you get a class II sensor which uses a 7v signal to work on the 5v uart system?