My forenos never ending problems....help!

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sat May 17, 2008 7:48 pm

Symptoms:
-Won’t rev above 4-5k RPMs
-Just died while driving. All of a sudden there was no power and then it died. I put it in gear and let the clutch go and it stayed running for a bit but had no power and eventually died again. Then it wouldn’t start what so ever. It cranked hard and the fuel pump turned out
-4x I tried starting it up and it only cranked but didn’t fire up. Eventually it just went right up like nothing ever happened but a couple times it eventually stopped cranking, went back and forth, then fired up.
-Overheats, I fixed it once with a sensor change but it’s doing it again. I don’t think the fans are turning on but I don’t have a/c controls right now to see for sure.
-It was idling strange sometimes and didn’t run right even below 4-5k RPMs. Changing the engine harness and getting ride of both my piggy back and MSD DIS-2 fixed that.
-Although I doubt this is related… the clutch pedal is soft for a couple pumps and sometimes will be sitting on the floor when I start up the car. Was progressively getting worst but now it isn’t changing
-For about 1min out of 15-20mins of cruising at 100mph is surged a little. Like it kept losing power than gaining it back. It was very mild and barley noticeable. Felt more like I was getting random gusts of wind head-on
-The rear o2 sensor seams to be grounding out or something strange as it’s giving weird readings.

Things we’ve tried:
-New ECU
-New engine harness
-Got rid of Piggy back and MSD DIS-2
-I’ve had about 10 mechanics give it a look over and advice and a couple shops work on it with no results

Non-factory parts (Excluding suspension, brakes, cosmetic, ect):
-MSD coil-pack and wires (returning to stock this weekend)
-F28, lsd, clutch kit.
-One aftermarket high performance CV axle, one factory one
-Cooler thermostat (car was overheating before hand)
-Leganza fuel injectors. Only because we changed the style plug my car uses to run the turbo ones
-Walbro fuel pump
-Optima battery and grounds
-Full exhaust, CAI, UD pulley, ect

The whole not revving above 4-5k RPMs and hardly having any power started right after the F28 was installed. About a year ago. The other day we just installed a new engine harness and removed my piggy back and MSD DIS-2. The car starts much better (it didn’t start bad before but now it’s strangely quick), runs more smooth, and overall feels better below 4-5k RPMs. You still feel power lose and no power at higher RPMs. There was one connector we never connected back up and have no idea what it is or what it goes to. We don’t remember disconnecting it on the old harness either. I have a picture of it connected on my spare motor that I’ll post when I can find my USB cord. After seeing it on my spare motor I maybe able to connect it but it’s a single prong piece near the alternator but the ALT is already connected. About 150 miles after the new engine harness the car just died on the road while cruising. Nothing lead up to it what so ever. Wouldn’t start, just cranked hard but the fuel pump was turning on. I didn’t get back to my car for about 6 hours. I got back and it fired right up but had some insane misfiring or something. It barley ran, the sound reminded me of the rumble on STIs with aftermarket exhaust systems…only this sounded horrible. No power, jerking, ect. This lasted about 5 mins while I tried to get it home then out of no where it started running fine while in 2nd gear just cruising. Ran fine for the next 5 mins home before I shut it off. The CEL was blinking the entire time.

A mechanic owes my Dad money or a favor so he’s going to look at my car for free. My Dads convinced that the mechanic will fix it but this is definitely not the first one to look at it but is the first average mechanic with no performance knowledge too. If he can’t help I think I’m going to just swap the engine out. I really don’t want to do this as I’m already doing that with my lanos and I have ARP bolts in this engine. I don’t want to go turbo without the ARP bolts but can’t afford them again for along long time and have every other turbo piece needed. Plus my other engine doesn’t even have 4k miles so I’d have to break it in first.

I think I’ve held my patience long enough but since yesterday I completely lost it. I got my car after putting in the new engine harness convinced that would fix things since there are so many different problems. I was supposed to pick up my GF and was only able to see her for 3-4 hours before she left for a trip for 9 weeks and hadn’t even seen her in about two weeks because of finals. Long story short, car broke down and I only saw her for a little bit. I spent $240 on gas this week largely in part because my other car when my forenza is down gets 13.5MPG when I baby it as much as possible. I’m ready to throw my car off a cliff.

Any input is appreciated,
Danny

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:08 pm

first thing you can do is get the cel checked, if you have to go rent the obd2 reader. if you do swap the engine but your arp's in the new engine when you pull this one out.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sat May 17, 2008 11:58 pm

daewoomofo wrote:first thing you can do is get the cel checked, if you have to go rent the obd2 reader. if you do swap the engine but your arp's in the new engine when you pull this one out.

I check the CEL pretty often and there is rarley anything new. Isn't a flashing CEL almost always a misfire?

Maybe I'll rent one tonight and check.

Yeah true but I haven't gotten into that part of the engine so it'd likely take me some time. I think I'll just focus my efforts on my Lanos and get it running for now.

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sun May 18, 2008 3:22 pm

im not sure if a flashing is misfire, when i had a mis fire on my lanos it was a constant cel

logikal · Post by **logikal** » Mon May 19, 2008 4:51 am

Hmmmm...Sounds to me like there is a grelin hiding in your motor some were. Are all the sensors plugged? I know sounds pretty simple but I managed to overlook even my knock sensor when in the heat of the moment. Check over everything. I noticed having a service manual near by would always help by checking off each sensor. Also try checking your factory ECU. Maybe it has become faulty. If you want mine you can have it to swap out and see if it fixes the problem.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Mon May 19, 2008 7:07 am

logikal wrote:Hmmmm...Sounds to me like there is a grelin hiding in your motor some were. Are all the sensors plugged? I know sounds pretty simple but I managed to overlook even my knock sensor when in the heat of the moment. Check over everything. I noticed having a service manual near by would always help by checking off each sensor. Also try checking your factory ECU. Maybe it has become faulty. If you want mine you can have it to swap out and see if it fixes the problem.

They are now. Lol. I had one that wasn't in but it's in now and it's still not running well enough. All it seamed to do is get rid of a ton of CELs.

Now the only one I have after a short drive is evap emissions system control intermitten. I had this CEL two other times in the last 4 months out of about 15 times checking it. Last time it happened was a few months ago. I posted on here before and no one was able to tell me much other than to try and change the charcoal canister or sensor. I looked into it and it was pretty expensive from the dealer so I didn't want to replace it unless I knew that was the problem.

Oh and yeah I've tried another ECU too

logikal · Post by **logikal** » Tue May 20, 2008 3:34 am

Unfortunetly it sounds like youll have to change out the canister. It is the main service item in the evap control. I know those bastard are not cheap. But dont forget I gut a gutted reno so if you do need anything pm me.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Tue May 20, 2008 5:15 am

logikal wrote:Unfortunetly it sounds like youll have to change out the canister. It is the main service item in the evap control. I know those bastard are not cheap. But dont forget I gut a gutted reno so if you do need anything pm me.

How would a bad canister effect the car though other than a CEL?

I just dropped the car off at another shop so I'll wait to hear back from them. You have an extra canaister I take it?

exist3nce · Post by **exist3nce** » Wed May 21, 2008 2:46 am

whoa.... sorry to hear you still have all these problems I was thinking it was mostly sorted out by now. Maybe you should just invest in a code scanner, even a basic one isn't much more than $50 and they are invaluable when diagnosing strange problems.

By the sounds of it, the blinking CEL was for the misfiring. The only times I've had that kind of misfiring is when my cam sensor was dying, and when the ignition adapter box that my first shop made started dying. Also been having it recently on cold starts sometimes due to my motor's issues with low compression (its getting worse) which is causing it to burn some oil and foul plugs. Also coolant has been disappearing and I've had to top it off every couple days...... I'm thinking the head gasket might be going

I guess next step as you've already planned is to go back to stock coils. Let us know how that goes.

Also I know if O2 sensors are grounding out and making the ECU think its extreme rich or extreme lean, it can also sound like a misfire and no power. I had this happen to me in the winter when I ran over a large snow bank, it f*cked my primary O2 and made it start sending near 0V consistantly to the ECU. This caused the ECU to think it was constantly lean so it kept adding more fuel until the point that my car just bogged and went nowhere and kinda sounded like a Subaru (it all happened within about 10sec). I only found the problem thanks to my wideband O2 that instantly showed me I was running richer than 10's AFR and OBD2 scanner program that showed me the short term fuel trims were maxing out.

A motor with 4,000 miles should not need to be broken in any more. It is ready to boost! Get some quality synthetic oil and you're good. From my experience you should be fine with 100% stock internals for at least 200whp on a good tune. Get it running with low boost first, have some fun, then do all the upgrades required when you want more power.

Oh and I hope your 3-4hrs with the GF was quality time

exist3nce · Post by **exist3nce** » Wed May 21, 2008 2:55 am

Just did a quick search on ebay..... found a basic unit for $50

If you are willing to spend a bit more, you can get something with more features and nicer looking.

http://cgi.ebay.ca/CAN-BUS-OBD-2-GS300- ... dZViewItem

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Wed May 21, 2008 5:12 am

exist3nce wrote:whoa.... sorry to hear you still have all these problems I was thinking it was mostly sorted out by now. Maybe you should just invest in a code scanner, even a basic one isn't much more than $50 and they are invaluable when diagnosing strange problems.

By the sounds of it, the blinking CEL was for the misfiring. The only times I've had that kind of misfiring is when my cam sensor was dying, and when the ignition adapter box that my first shop made started dying. Also been having it recently on cold starts sometimes due to my motor's issues with low compression (its getting worse) which is causing it to burn some oil and foul plugs. Also coolant has been disappearing and I've had to top it off every couple days...... I'm thinking the head gasket might be going

I guess next step as you've already planned is to go back to stock coils. Let us know how that goes.

Also I know if O2 sensors are grounding out and making the ECU think its extreme rich or extreme lean, it can also sound like a misfire and no power. I had this happen to me in the winter when I ran over a large snow bank, it f*cked my primary O2 and made it start sending near 0V consistantly to the ECU. This caused the ECU to think it was constantly lean so it kept adding more fuel until the point that my car just bogged and went nowhere and kinda sounded like a Subaru (it all happened within about 10sec). I only found the problem thanks to my wideband O2 that instantly showed me I was running richer than 10's AFR and OBD2 scanner program that showed me the short term fuel trims were maxing out.

A motor with 4,000 miles should not need to be broken in any more. It is ready to boost! Get some quality synthetic oil and you're good. From my experience you should be fine with 100% stock internals for at least 200whp on a good tune. Get it running with low boost first, have some fun, then do all the upgrades required when you want more power.

Oh and I hope your 3-4hrs with the GF was quality time

Yeah I probably will get one in a few months.

I had several codes when I checked yesterday including:
-injector circuit...something something for all four injectors
-CPS low input
-02 heater circuit bank & sensor one
-evap sys vent control intermitten
-evap emissions sys purge control valve....something. Closed maybe.

I cleared them and they didn't come back up. I scanned it again and it showed no codes yet my CEL was still on...?? Then I got the problem again on the way to the shop were it just died while driving and wouldn't start back up. Scanner wasn't showing any codes.

I thought that several people have said the o2 sensors on our cars don't effect anything other than a CEL for a bad CAT?

The o2 sensor has been doing that forever though and I only had this problem breifly and recently. I've replaced both o2 sensors since I've had all these problems except where it died and wouldn't start up.

Maybee...plans may change though. I might put that spare 2.0 in my lanos because I'm getting a 2.2. I'd prefer to keep the 2.2 out untill I get some internals for it before I put it into my lanos. ahhh I dunno.

logikal · Post by **logikal** » Wed May 21, 2008 7:24 am

Did you try disconnecting the battery for a good half hour and then running the idle learn procedure?

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Wed May 21, 2008 8:49 am

logikal wrote:Did you try disconnecting the battery for a good half hour and then running the idle learn procedure?

At which point? but probbaly not either way

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Thu May 22, 2008 12:26 am

My personal opinion is that you need to get one shop or one guy to do all the work.

Find yourself some young mechanic that works at a Suzuki dealership that is interested in your project ( just go in and ask around... talk to the shop foreman )

Then offer to pay him money outside of work to help you fix up your car and turbo it.

Perhaps you might even find a guy that is interested in racing.... then you can make a deal with him to lend him one of your two cars so you can race together.

Then at the very least you will be able to learn from him and start to be able to fix the cars yourself.

There is no need for fancy electronics equipment or lifts..... it can all be done very easily on a garage floor covered in cardboard with a few cheap tools ( scanner, hoist, impact wrench, torque wrench and a good set of metric wrenches, good multimeter )

If you need metric stuff.... just ask... Canada is metric (but we still use imperial here and there) so I can get you a set of metric tools pretty cheap.

exist3nce · Post by **exist3nce** » Thu May 22, 2008 2:21 am

I really doubt the emissions codes had anything to do with the strange problems. Can you tell us the error numbers?

CPS - sounds like camshaft position sensor which could cause misfires, could also be crankshaft position sensor which is even worse....

As I said about the O2 codes, they can cause some really weird stuff to happen.

I do agree with Chris on this, you need to find a mechanic who is willing to tackle the whole thing.