Am I nuts to plunk a Diesel into an Aveo?

anton100 · Post by **anton100** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:55 pm

Ok, I just read that the CIBC bank has determined that gasoline is going to $2.25/litre in Canada and I can barely afford to drive to work as it is. I know that the Kalos doesn't come with a Diesel, but is there any other small displacement (not over 1.6L) diesel that I can EASILY fit into my 2005 automatic Aveo5? I'd be willing to import it from Europe or Asia if necessary, but what I don't want is to end up paying my mechanic $5000 to make it work. Any ideas? Thanks in advance!

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:03 pm

with the money you would spend on importing it, going through it ti make sure its done right, and custom install you will spend WAY over the amount of money you would have spent on gas. just drive the car easy and you can get 27 mpg city and 37 highway.

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Fri Apr 25, 2008 11:43 pm

+1

I don't think there are any diesel engines that I know off the top of my head that bolt up to the 4T40-E automatic.

Some math:

I'll go in US terms ($/Gal), but the ratios at the end should be the same.

Average miles driven per year in the US = 12,000.
Average mileage of the Aveo = +/- 29 MPG
Average yearly fuel usage = 413 Gallons
Yearly cost of fuel @ $4/Gal = $1655

Cost of buying/importing/taxes of engine = $1000
Cost of adapting Aveo to run diesel + installation of engine = $3000 (Total guess, here. I could be totally off)

So I think the cheapest you are looking at is maybe $4000.

Keep in mind, the cars electrical system, fuel system, and management system would need to be changed. The 4T40-E transmission isn't even designed to run diesel, so I don't know what modifications would be there...etc etc.

You might not even pass emissions tests.

Are you really willing to spend 2.5 years' worth of gas $ to have this happen? There are way easier ways to save.

Keep your tires inflated.
Switch to synthetic fuels.
Start off the line slow and keep WOT acceleration to an extreme minimum.
Switch to free flowing filters or a CAI.

And IMO, if your job doesn't pay enough to make driving there worth it in a subcompact...maybe it's time for a change.

anton100 · Post by **anton100** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:06 pm

Thanks for the replies, but:

1) I live in a small town and the only way to get a better paying job is to move to the city where I can enjoy renting a 1 bedroom apartment in a mediocre building for $3000 a month, thus give all the extra money I'm making directly to a landlord.

2) I drive about 60,000 km. per year: Well over the average. I have got to find some way to save money on my fuel bills and even look at the possibility of running on veg oil.

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 2:46 pm

personally i think if you were to do it it would be more like 8-9k. but if you look at the gas stations, diesel is like $4.50 a gallon so something like that. if you need better mileage that much get a hibrid car likd a prius or something.

anton100 · Post by **anton100** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:47 pm

Yeah, there is no way I could dump almost 10K into a diesel conversion. Can't afford that. However, right now, I'm getting 35 mpg. So in the average year I'm putting about 1200 gallons into the tank, or over 4500 litres. At the current price of $1.29/litre that works out to damn near $6000, which is about 75% of what I pay in RENT for a detached house! It would be great if I could just look at that $6000 going into the tank and laugh it off, but I have to work a lot of hours to get that kind of money. I've got to come up with SOMETHING! There's a new Prius at my local dealer with a sticker price of $36K. That's also out of the question.

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:40 pm

There really is nothing out there for you that I can think of. Anything that would cut gas in the long run would be expensive in the short run. A Prius or Civic Hybrid is expensive, a diesel conversion is expensive/impossible, and there really isn't much out on the market nowadays that will beat the Aveo in gas mileage. Maybe you could go to your local Honda dealer and see if they can get you a used Insight from 1999 or 2000. They're very reliable and can be had for under $10,000. Your Aveo's trade-in value is around $4000, and you can finance the additional $6000 over 5 years for a small interest rate (due to the sluggish economy) and have a monthly payment of a little over $100. An Insight may be hard to come by, but I'm sure if you make a down-payment with the dealer, he can have one for you in a few weeks. The best? 61 MPG in the city, 70 on the highway. With the amount you drive, even with the monthly payment, you'll be paying less for gas.

Like I said, there is no "quick fix". You can do a few things here or there to raise the MPG of your own car a little bit, but there simply is no way to have a cost-effective short term fix. Otherwise, everyone would be doing it.

Perhaps find someone and car-pool with them. That cuts costs in half!

Is rent really $3000/month in the city? People pay $36,000 a year just to live in an apartment? Over the course of a regular 30-year mortgage, that comes to $1,080,000 CAD, or $1,062,000 USD. That's 5 times the median home price in Tampa, FL. Maybe you should think about moving to the states. It seems to be way cheaper.

And you seriously drive 66,000 KM a year? 41,000 miles is a lot to drive, no matter the reason. My father is a field service rep. for Auto Trader. His full-time job is to drive and he manages 27,000 a year.

anton100 · Post by **anton100** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:09 am

Unfortunately I can't do the Insight as we've got a baby in our near future and can't live with a two seater. The Civic hybrid gets far worse mileage, so that's not really a reasonable alternative. I just can't believe that the auto manufacturers are sitting around devising new grille designs for their F250s and Rams while the vast number of North Americans on a budget can't afford to drive to work any more!

I have not had a week yet where I haven't clocked 1000 km. Usually it's around 1200 or so.

I'd love to move to the USA. If you can arrange for a Green Card for me I'll be there tomorrow. I've only been trying to get one for over 20 years.

As for the costs of Vancouver, $3000 a month is somewhat reasonable. There's an condo building on Georgia St. with a billboard out front advertising "Condos from $6 million to $17 million." Very affordable! NOT!

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:59 am

Ummmmmm... get out of Vancouver and come to Edmonton, problem solved.

Do you live in Abbotsford or something??? That's a pile of kilometers to put on in a year.

There are two of us from Edmonton on here, both with the experience to put a diesel in your Aveo if you really wanted it.

Rent for a 2 bedroom apartment in Edmonton with a loft (nice place) will run you about $1200 a month.

Unlike Vancouver, Edmonton has piles of jobs.... don't go to the USA... they are in recession.

They say Canada is in a bit of a recession as well (thanks to the USA) , but in Alberta you can still make $15 an hour working at Tim Hortons.

What do you do for a living?

Now onto the Diesel thing...... there are a number of drop in diesels that will work in the Aveo..... but conversion would be relatively expensive.

Others on this board forget that most of the Vauxhalls and Opels in the world are you guessed it.... diesels.

The current Corsa 1.3 CDTi diesel gets 62.8 MPG ( keep in mind that is UK MPG )

I'm not sure about compatibility with regards to the tranny but I know there are a number of older diesels that are compatible with the gearboxes.

So since the UK gallon is 4.54609 Liters and the US gallon is 3.7854118 Liters that means that 62.8MPG (UK) = 75.4 MPG (US)

So to me..... getting 75.4 MPG might be an attractive alternative.... but of course if you lived in Edmonton your likely to only have a 15 minute commute to work.

I live just outside Edmonton in Sherwood Park and it's only 15km to work.... we have lots of highways and freeways throughout the city that make commuting pretty easy.

Even on a really really bad day in winter where the freeway is complete ice it only takes me about 45 minutes to get into work.

Perhaps you might not like the cold... you could allways work here half the year and half the year somewhere where it doesn't get quite so cold

Oh... we don't have emissions testing in Alberta either..... so dropping a Diesel would be ok ( where as they may give you a hard time in other provinces)

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 2:05 am

Oh.... in case anyone cares.... our fuel price is about $4.65 a gallon due to all the governement taxes.

Considering we produce massive amounts of oil here in Edmonton, oil capital of Canada.... a few hours away from one of the worlds largest deposits of oil... we should have cheap fuel but we don't.

Of course I'm compaining about $4.65 a gallon but there are other places in Canada with far worse prices ( $5.00 a gallon is the worst I could find.... in Kamloops BC )

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 6:53 am

Considering we produce massive amounts of oil here in Edmonton, oil capital of Canada.... a few hours away from one of the worlds largest deposits of oil... we should have cheap fuel but we don't.

Of course I'm compaining about $4.65 a gallon but there are other places in Canada with far worse prices ( $5.00 a gallon is the worst I could find.... in Kamloops BC )

Hmmm. Try $2.20 per LITRE here in the UK/Ireland

Sure that's only $10 per gallon here

anton100 · Post by **anton100** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 1:03 pm

Actually I live about an hour outside of the very city you mentioned for ridiculous gas prices, Kamloops! That's why I'm paying such low rent. If I moved to Vancouver, then I'd have to pay $3000 or more. I lived in SW Alberta years ago and loved it, but my gf won't go there as for some unknown reason she doesn't want to leave BC.

My commute to work now is about a hundred km. round trip (in the opposite direction from Kamloops) and then we go out to see her folks almost every weekend in Kelowna and that's a 500 km. rounder. That's why I'm so desperate to do something... anything!

I love the idea of a Corsa 1.3 CDTi. If there were incompatibility issues with the tranny, what about just plunking in the entire drivetrain? Would that be an option?

I know it's next to impossible to import the entire car, so I'm envisioning an Aveo that's really a Corsa from the firewall up!

As for the European price of diesel, at least you guys can just walk into a dealership and buy a C1/Aygo and get 70 mpg. We don't have that option and our fuel prices are quickly approaching yours!

Pir0 · Post by **Pir0** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:34 pm

Lol, well, that's true about the vast number of diesel cars, but that doesnt help me when i'm planning a 2.0 turbo build that runs on petrol lol!

Sounds like ya do a lotta driving. Still don't think it'd be worth the hassel, those wee small aveos can't be THAT hard on the juice to compensate for doing something like this. If it's all highways, i'd concider looking into a final drive swap, so you've a longer rev range, making you sit at a lower rpm for the same speed on the highway, using less juice.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 7:41 pm

The Gasoline (or should I say Petrol) engines designed to go into the Corsa (which should fit the Aveo) go as small as 1.0L !!!!!!!!!!

http://media.gm.com/intl/opel/en/downlo ... rsa_en.pdf

I haven't really looked into the 1.3CDTi all that much...... but yes..... I'm sure the engine/tranny/management system could be imported and dropped into an Aveo.

Given the power output of the small diesel I really don't think there would be a problem using your existing tranny if the bolt patterns lined up.

However.... the newer 1.3 CDTi is going to cost quite a bit so you might be better off going with a slightly older diesel designed for the Corsa or Astra.

The bad news is that it might be hard to find one in good condition.

Given your location it actually might be cheaper to find a diesel from the singapore,thailand,malaysia area ( if they have them there )

The shipping would be half the price of bringing it from the UK or Europe.

Do some digging around within GM asia and you might find something your looking for

Mexico also has the Corsa.... but I don't think they have the diesel version there for some reason..... but I wouldn't be surprized to see some down in south america.

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Apr 27, 2008 8:01 pm

Another alternative is to build a diesel electric hybrid to fit onto your current transmission.

The smart car diesel is one good choice and there are a few in your area.

The smart car diesel wouldn't be enough by itself even if you stripped the car down to make it lighter.

The diesel would however allow you to travel 100km/h or so.... probably not more than 120 km/h.... on highways.

You might however have a hard time with getting through the hills going to Kelowna.... hard to say.... don't really know until you try it.

The electric motor would be required to help get you moving along at a reasonable pace (especially in the Vancouver city area ) but it would not be usefull to help you on hill climbs.

The smart car is only about 1700lbs so it's quite a bit less than the aveo which is in the 2300 to 2500lb range

Have you ever thought about getting a motorcycle for the summer?