Lanos will not run after rebuild from broken timing belt

N/A tech, Cold Air Intakes, Spark Plugs/wires, Cat backs, Exhaust...etc

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gb2615
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Location: Canberra, Australia

Post by gb2615 »

Hi BosnianLanos
Where were you when I needed you? LOL

It's nice to know that I am not the only one capapble of making a such simple stuff up. It cost me 4 weeks of time but I learnt such a lot of valuable information about the Lanos that I would go as far to say that it was time well spent.

I am assuming yours fired up because the error in the timing is only 1 or 2 degrees while mine is actually about 20 degrees (10 degrees before TDC and 10 degrees after TDC) and retarded. Maybe someone else can set me straight on this.

I think your mistake was somewhat simpler to achieve than mine.
At least you put the gears in the correct orientation when you assembled the car. :smt022
It does seem that this problem could have been "engineered" out to the design of the woo with such little effort. I could make a guess that probably very few of the engineers that originally did the design of this part of the engine have ever rebuilt an engine to understand how easy this problem can arise.
That also leads me to think about the way they must manufacture the engine when they do assemble it.
They must install a "timing mark less" set of intake and exhaust camshafts. Then analyse the exact Top Dead Centre position for each camshaft. Finally they must stamp the gears insitu so that the markings are correct.
Therefore, the camgear and the shaft are really a matched set and should always be changed together.

This is all a bit of thinking out loud but still very interesting and might prompt another discussion.
Lanos - Lots of engineering packed into one little space

Lanos SX 1.6lt DOHC 5spd 09/1997 220kms - No Mods
MMamdouh
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Post by MMamdouh »

glad you found out the problem and got it fixed

you think you are an idiot for switching cams??? try filling the engine with fresh oil and when you are done you realize that the oil pan plug is sitting right on top of the battry

MMamdouh
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daewoomofo
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Post by daewoomofo »

MMamdouh wrote:you think you are an idiot for switching cams??? try filling the engine with fresh oil and when you are done you realize that the oil pan plug is sitting right on top of the battry

thats a good one MM. my dad once accadentaly left the oil cap off, when the oil light came on he stoped at a service station to find out what the problem was, when the tech and him saw the oil cap gone, dad blamed my mom so he didnt look stupid
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MMamdouh
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Post by MMamdouh »

LOL

MMamdouh
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gb2615
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Post by gb2615 »

G'Day MMamdouh and daeoomofo

We "men" often look to divert the embarassment. "Who me?" :smt102

I'm always amazed at how far a few drops of oil can spread on a clean looking concrete floor. So seeing an entire oil change on the floor and your boots would be a good laugh until it came time to clean it all up.

Do you have any thoughts on how much of an error in the timing would have occured with the swap of the camshafts?
I guessed it would be 10 degrees after TDC making a 20 degree shift but is this correct?
Lanos - Lots of engineering packed into one little space

Lanos SX 1.6lt DOHC 5spd 09/1997 220kms - No Mods
daewoomofo
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Post by daewoomofo »

i really dont have a clue sorry
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gb2615
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Post by gb2615 »

No worries, some clever mech will drop a reply on here one day.
I'm a patient person. :smt093 LOL
Lanos - Lots of engineering packed into one little space

Lanos SX 1.6lt DOHC 5spd 09/1997 220kms - No Mods
Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Hi experts,

Dumb question here about A16DMS.
If you swap in/ex camshaft/camgear and align timing marks then they are turned half a turn!

How the hell can you crank engine without damaging valves :?:

Daniel
MMamdouh
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Post by MMamdouh »

why do you want to mess the alighnment in the first place?

MMamdouh
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Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

I don't want to do that bro! But from what I've understood gb2615 did it by mistake. And I was just wondering how valves can sustain that without dammage.
Sorry for this dumbass question.
;)
Daniel
gb2615
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Post by gb2615 »

Hi Daniel
This is not a dumbass question and has really got me thinking.

I think the answer lies in the fact that the cam lobes are egg shaped and the cam gears only do 1 revolution for every 2 revolutions of the crankshaft (1 complete 4 stroke cycle). Therefore although you expect damage by the incorrect installation, it just happens to be OK mechanically in this rare instance but as you know the engine didn't run.

I am trying to "write up" the explanation in words because I can't create a picture.
More to come ...
Lanos - Lots of engineering packed into one little space

Lanos SX 1.6lt DOHC 5spd 09/1997 220kms - No Mods
gb2615
Posts: 32
Joined: Sun Feb 03, 2008 8:20 am
Location: Canberra, Australia

Post by gb2615 »

Hi Daniel

Further to your question about why it worked. I gave up on trying to explain in words and went and found some basic pictures which I have added below in an attempt to show why it nearly works but doesn't and why there is no damage.
What this has made me realise is just how lucky I was not cause major damage had things been diffent e.g. DOCH 6 CYL engine would not have worked so well. :shock:

NOTE - the 1st image is a correctly assembled engine, while the 2nd image is the incorrectly assembled engine.

Please be kind. I am no artist and had some very basic drawing tools to convert the images and add the cam gear and cam lobe positional indicators. :lol:

Image


Image
Lanos - Lots of engineering packed into one little space

Lanos SX 1.6lt DOHC 5spd 09/1997 220kms - No Mods
Daniel
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Post by Daniel »

Nice pics. Now I know more. Thanks, lucky man!

Daniel
MMamdouh
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Post by MMamdouh »

YOU CALL THOSES PICS??????????????????

(j/k)

i really appreciate the effort and work... frankly it is very very good man, i love illustrations in posts as i rely more on my eyes to learn and that was very good work bro ;)

MMamdouh
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Check out my ride: http://www.cardomain.com/ride/567267
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daewoomofo
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Post by daewoomofo »

MMamdouh wrote:i really appreciate the effort and work... frankly it is very very good man, i love illustrations in posts as i rely more on my eyes to learn and that was very good work bro

+10000000
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