SMT-6 question(s)

[kinkyllama]

It should click... loudly... when power is applied.


You may need to take it out and shoot some power through the switch side (the part that activates the internal mechanism) and listen for it. The schematic for each relay is usually on the relay itself or take the number for it and go look online.

I edited my post cuz usually I think Chris only reads these kind of posts if it's qouting him.

I switched the fans relays with other relays of the same type/size

[PrecisionBoost]

I could send down my forenza ECU... my parents bought a place on a golf course just south of Tucson.

Needless to say my sister and her family are going to visit them during the second week of novemeber.... so if I send you the ECU right now you can try it out and see if it fixes the problem.

Then you can send the ECU to my parents place and my brother in law can bring it back with him.

The ECU is from an automatic but it worked just fine in my Optra on the few occasions when I fooled around with it (dyno tested the Optra with both the stock ECU and Suzuki ECU... results exactly identical)

I'd want the ECU back.... since I still have a nice U20SED with 9K on it sitting in my garage (thinking about dropping it into my Lanos)... but atleast it would help you troubleshoot the problem.

I still think it's the ECU..... if your coolant gauge still works then it's not the sensor.... if your relays are fine then it can only be one thing.... Damaged ECU or Damaged Fans.

If you have a multimeter or test light you can let the car warm up to where the fans should turn on and check the power going to the fans.... if your multimeter or test light indicate voltage then it's the fans... otherwise it's the ECU.

I am of course assuming you checked the fuses that provide power to the fans.

[kinkyllama]

I could send down my forenza ECU... my parents bought a place on a golf course just south of Tucson.

Needless to say my sister and her family are going to visit them during the second week of novemeber.... so if I send you the ECU right now you can try it out and see if it fixes the problem.

Then you can send the ECU to my parents place and my brother in law can bring it back with him.

The ECU is from an automatic but it worked just fine in my Optra on the few occasions when I fooled around with it (dyno tested the Optra with both the stock ECU and Suzuki ECU... results exactly identical)

I'd want the ECU back.... since I still have a nice U20SED with 9K on it sitting in my garage (thinking about dropping it into my Lanos)... but atleast it would help you troubleshoot the problem.

I still think it's the ECU..... if your coolant gauge still works then it's not the sensor.... if your relays are fine then it can only be one thing.... Damaged ECU or Damaged Fans.

If you have a multimeter or test light you can let the car warm up to where the fans should turn on and check the power going to the fans.... if your multimeter or test light indicate voltage then it's the fans... otherwise it's the ECU.

I am of course assuming you checked the fuses that provide power to the fans.

I'd like to avoid doing that, but I guess after testing the wires it'll be the last thing. I really appreciate that...and I'll let you know as soon as I can.

So next I'll test the wires, at what points should the fans be on? How will I know they should be on? cuz if I test it and there is no power to the fans because they aren't even supposed to be running that min then It'd defeat the purpose.

I drove about 5 hours today, and the only time the car started to over heat was after 2 hours of driving at the hottest point of the day I got stuck at a redlight for about 7mins.

[Efratech]

give them a direct feed to test if the fans are ok.

[PrecisionBoost]

I will have to check into it..... I remember that in order to make the idle learn procedure work I had to heat up the car above 100 deg C ( boiling point of water)

The temperature was in the mid 80's (F) so I had a hard time getting it up there.... I had to disconnect the fans so they wouldn't turn on.

I will have to look for it in one of my manuals but for some reason I think that 80 deg C = 176 deg F was the trigger point

I have to think that the fans would turn on for sure by 100 deg C = 212 deg F

I think that if you were to simply drive around and then stop on your driveway and let the car sit for a couple of minutes at idle the ECU should be trying to turn on the fans.


I still think you should pick up another ECU.... you should be able to get one from a wrecker (Ebay) for less than $60.... athough it will be harder to find one for a manual transmission model.

The auto ECU will work just fine at first but then it will trigger a CEL because it doesn't see some of the sensors from the tranny..... and usually that will affect the idle.

If your going to spend a bit of money you might as well find an ECU from a manual model.


I just keep coming back to the idea that changes in the fuel delivery can't happen unless either the ECU or SMT6 were reprogramed..... or one of them is damaged.

I would normally say it's a 50/50 chance but given your issues with the fans I still have to think that it's the ECU

Think about it this way..... if the ECU is damaged and not taking the Engine Coolant Sensor data it would screw up both fuel and fan operation.

The ECU might think the car is ice cold since it's not seeing the correct ECS information..... as such it would change the fuel injector duty cycle to compensate.... and it would never turn on the fans because it thinks it's below the trigger point.

[kinkyllama]

give them a direct feed to test if the fans are ok.

Would just taking the postive wire and putting it on the postive terminal of the battery be okay?

I will have to check into it..... I remember that in order to make the idle learn procedure work I had to heat up the car above 100 deg C ( boiling point of water)

The temperature was in the mid 80's (F) so I had a hard time getting it up there.... I had to disconnect the fans so they wouldn't turn on.

I will have to look for it in one of my manuals but for some reason I think that 80 deg C = 176 deg F was the trigger point

I have to think that the fans would turn on for sure by 100 deg C = 212 deg F

I think that if you were to simply drive around and then stop on your driveway and let the car sit for a couple of minutes at idle the ECU should be trying to turn on the fans.


I still think you should pick up another ECU.... you should be able to get one from a wrecker (Ebay) for less than $60.... athough it will be harder to find one for a manual transmission model.

The auto ECU will work just fine at first but then it will trigger a CEL because it doesn't see some of the sensors from the tranny..... and usually that will affect the idle.

If your going to spend a bit of money you might as well find an ECU from a manual model.


I just keep coming back to the idea that changes in the fuel delivery can't happen unless either the ECU or SMT6 were reprogramed..... or one of them is damaged.

I would normally say it's a 50/50 chance but given your issues with the fans I still have to think that it's the ECU

Think about it this way..... if the ECU is damaged and not taking the Engine Coolant Sensor data it would screw up both fuel and fan operation.

The ECU might think the car is ice cold since it's not seeing the correct ECS information..... as such it would change the fuel injector duty cycle to compensate.... and it would never turn on the fans because it thinks it's below the trigger point.

Yeah I was thinking I should get a spare one for the hell of it instead of bugging you with yours.

Does the ECU just plug in?

I assume the model years with drive by wire wouldn't work would they?

*edit; found one locally for $100, but they need to pull it still, either I'll get it late tomorrow or more likely Monday.

[daewoomofo]

if you touch the hot wire to the + and the negative wire to the - the fan should turn on

[kinkyllama]

ahh I hope all these things are the ECU...and I'm starting to get some confidence that it is because of all these things we haven't be able to figure out.

-Since my car started overheating it became extreamly hesistant off idle sometimes, when it does do it I either burn the hell out of the clutch or stall the car cuz it's unexpected.
-My longest on going problem; going through batterys. It's still happening, I'm on my fourth battery (last two were optima yellows, this ones some wall mart thing) and this one doesn't seam to be doing the job again. I drove around for about 15 mins after having to jump start the car this morning, got home and turned off the engine but kept the stereo on, after about 7mins the radio wouldn't even stay on due to lack of juice. Alternator was tested to be strong after my first battery wouldn't hold a charge anymore.
-My running to lean issue---well hopefully it's that. Either way I'm making little power and it starts making no power as early as 4k rpms now(it's started doing it earlyier in the power band the colder it gets, which is one reason I think it's running lean)
-The fans aren't turning on.\
-My gas milage is half of what it should be once again, it was like that when I first had the F28 installed and my cracked ignition coil

Could my battery problem even be related to the ECU though? that's the most annoying problem....hell I've spent $380 on batterys alone. Though I should be able to get warranty replacments for the optimals I didn't have time to wait for that cuz I needed my car.

Just a thought since most my problems started at and after the same time. Could my ignition coil have messed up my ECU from when it cracked and sent sparks through the hood?

[kinkyllama]

Changed the ECU, the fans still don't turn on and my engine still isn't making any power.

I'm going to test the power wires going to the fans tomorrow night, and see if I can figure out how the fuel filter is setup on my walbro pump. Is there any way to clean the injectors from my garage?

[kinkyllama]

Okay, got the fuel pump assembly all apart---that was annoying. I hate those clips.

Anyways the filter is so much different than I expected...how can you tell if it's really dirty? and can you even replace just the filter on the walbro pumps? or is it just washable. Theres a little gunk on the outside but that's all I can tell of.

Also is one of the fans always on when the a/c is on?

[MMamdouh]

Also is one of the fans always on when the a/c is on?

both fans should be on at low speed when A/C is on.

MMamdouh

[kinkyllama]

how can you tell if it's really dirty? or is it just washable. Theres a little gunk on the outside but that's all I can tell of.

Well I'm just going to run some water through it and let it dry out then put it back in since it appears pretty clean.

[kinkyllama]

both fans should be on at low speed when A/C is on.

MMamdouh

If thats true then neither of my fans are getting power.

So what should I look at next?


Battery isn't lasting more than 5mins now after the cars off...I unplugged my turbo timer too see if thats the problem but the fact the battery won't last more than 5mins makes me think it's already crap

[PrecisionBoost]

This really sounds like your car is completly dieing..... you need to have someone check for current draw..... it's possible that you have some sort of major power draw and it's killing everything.

You should immediatly disconnect all audio amplifiers and and or any wiring going to the audio system.

Alternatively if you have a fuse that links the audio system to the primary power system, remove it ( make sure you disconnnect the battery first)

If you have a car audio problem or an issue with a second battery it's possible that you've pulled too much current and damaged the alternator

First off.... measure the voltage of the battery before you start up the car

Then start up the car and see what the voltage is.

Then shut the car down and monitor the voltage for the 5 minutes after shutting down.

If you have a mulitmeter.... check and see if you get anything accross the battery terminals if you switch the multi meter to AC

I'm almost wondering if your charging system is putting out a partial AC voltage instead of a straight DC voltage.

Basicly the alternator creates AC voltage and it's output converted down to roughly 14.4 DC volts.

If the regulator/rectifier circuit is damaged then it's possible that it might be putting out partial DC and partial AC

It's kind of complicated to explain.... you will just have to trust the fact that I'm an electronics engineering tech.

Basicly AC/DC conversion circuits can have ripple ( AC voltage on top of DC voltage ) if the current draw is higher than a specific value.

The battery has a "capacitance" but it can only filter out a certain amount of ripple based upon current draw.

If you happen to know somebody with a DC clamp Ammeter it will allow you to trace any power draw from the battery.

Here's what you need.....
http://cgi.ebay.com/EXTECH-MA120-AC-DC- ... dZViewItem

Basicly you will be able to clamp the meter over the wire without cutting into it.... it measures current through electromagnetic induction.

This type of meter will let you clamp any wire and it will instantly show you how much current is flowing through the wire.... that way you can see where all the power from your batter is draining to.

Chris

[mezomaster]

we had a similar problem but it was in a Fiat Uno Turbo, we thought about everything and changed alot of things and changed the ECU but finally it was a bad chasis to engine negative cable, we changed the ground kit from battery to chasis and battery to engine and everything is wounderful...

wish that helps