My forenos never ending problems....help!

[logikal]

+1 on the above. I tore down the entire Reno to the frame with only a screwdriver, some wrenches, a few sockets, and a hammer. I didnt once have to whip out the IR behemoth impact gun. The best way to learn is to dive in and screw shit up so you what not to do next time.

[kinkyllama]

My personal opinion is that you need to get one shop or one guy to do all the work.

Find yourself some young mechanic that works at a Suzuki dealership that is interested in your project ( just go in and ask around... talk to the shop foreman )

Then offer to pay him money outside of work to help you fix up your car and turbo it.

Perhaps you might even find a guy that is interested in racing.... then you can make a deal with him to lend him one of your two cars so you can race together.

Then at the very least you will be able to learn from him and start to be able to fix the cars yourself.

There is no need for fancy electronics equipment or lifts..... it can all be done very easily on a garage floor covered in cardboard with a few cheap tools ( scanner, hoist, impact wrench, torque wrench and a good set of metric wrenches, good multimeter )

If you need metric stuff.... just ask... Canada is metric (but we still use imperial here and there) so I can get you a set of metric tools pretty cheap.

I've had one shop/guy do just about all the work or look at it at least. He's still willing to look at it and has a few ideas but my Dads had it with giving me a ride every time my car breaks down so I had to do it his way this time.

Problem with this is the closest suzuki dealer is 45mins away in decent traffic. During heavy traffic hours it could be as much as 2 hours. I don't want to have a shop that's nearly that far away.

I really doubt the emissions codes had anything to do with the strange problems. Can you tell us the error numbers?

CPS - sounds like camshaft position sensor which could cause misfires, could also be crankshaft position sensor which is even worse....

As I said about the O2 codes, they can cause some really weird stuff to happen.


I do agree with Chris on this, you need to find a mechanic who is willing to tackle the whole thing.

I can't remember. The CPS one was I beleive 0449 or something similiar. I had it before and replaced the CPS sensor and it went away untill now. This was less than 6 months ago.


Anyway if my Dads mechanic doesn't get anything done the car will be going back to the shops that has had there hands in it the most trying to fix this problem. Everyone at the shop is pretty good with cars and they are good friends with the two best shops over on this side of the USA that they'll call upon to come help out if we don't find this soon.

[kinkyllama]

Well of course the mechanic had no luck, cars back at the old shop again. Died while driving again on the way to the first shop. They don't have any good ideas as to what's wrong. At this point it just has to be a sensors right? Since we've tried the ecu and wiring harness

Is there any chance this has anything to do with my F28? The not revving above ~4.5k started directly after the F28 install

[Pir0]

Have you looked at the timing?

Check the timing quick.
WHen my engine was doing this the timing was retarded a brave 4 teeth! Wouldnt rev above 4k either.

[PrecisionBoost]

Do you know what the installation shop did with regards to the vehicle speed sensor on the F28 ?

Other than that I have to assume it's an electrical issue and the engine is in some sort of "limp mode"

My personal opinon is that you simply need to finish the installation with the turbo and everything.

Basicly have one shop do everything in one shot to get rid of all the past installations.

Keep in mind that electronics are not predictable.... if you partially short a wire that is normally a 5V reference anywhere in the vehicle that will screw up all the sensors in a bad way since the partial or full short will pull the 5V refference down and none of the sensors will read correctly ( resulting in stalling, poor running conditions, horrible gas mileage and a billion other problems )

If it were me I would pull out a wiring schematic and check for votage/resistance ( which would probably take a good 8 to 10 hours )


Too bad your all the way down there in Arizona or I would suggest having your car towed to my shop.


Hell... for the money you've probably spent I could have replaced your entire wiring system by hand with a standalone engine management system!

I don't know what to say..... I won't be coming down to Arizona until next spring ( to visit my parents in Tuscon.... they live down there through the winter )

Have you thought about picking up a cheap 1.6L to put into the Lanos and using it as your daily driver?

[kinkyllama]

Do you know what the installation shop did with regards to the vehicle speed sensor on the F28 ?

Other than that I have to assume it's an electrical issue and the engine is in some sort of "limp mode"

My personal opinon is that you simply need to finish the installation with the turbo and everything.

Basicly have one shop do everything in one shot to get rid of all the past installations.

Keep in mind that electronics are not predictable.... if you partially short a wire that is normally a 5V reference anywhere in the vehicle that will screw up all the sensors in a bad way since the partial or full short will pull the 5V refference down and none of the sensors will read correctly ( resulting in stalling, poor running conditions, horrible gas mileage and a billion other problems )

If it were me I would pull out a wiring schematic and check for votage/resistance ( which would probably take a good 8 to 10 hours )


Too bad your all the way down there in Arizona or I would suggest having your car towed to my shop.


Hell... for the money you've probably spent I could have replaced your entire wiring system by hand with a standalone engine management system!

I don't know what to say..... I won't be coming down to Arizona until next spring ( to visit my parents in Tuscon.... they live down there through the winter )

Have you thought about picking up a cheap 1.6L to put into the Lanos and using it as your daily driver?

Nope. I think the old shop just plugged it right in. It reads the correct speed though. The shop is going to check that out, I think that was the first thing they thought off because they've seen stranger things happening from the speed sensor on VWs.

A turbo system isn't going to knock out any past installations besides intake and exhaust though. Also, we've almost returned everything to stock other than the basic intake, exhaust, and pulley. Only the fuel injectors (leggy injectors) and fuel pump are different, from the top of my head.

They're going to be checking the voltages/resistance next...but they already did it once a few months ago when I first had the battery dying issue. Which we thought we fixed and it did go away for several months but now it's back. Of course before they did it for a different purpose.

Here in AZ the 1.6 cost much more than a 2.0. Plus I only have 2.0 mounts. I'll probably continue to put my 2.0 in, I kinda rather have this one in the lanos anyways since it only has 4k miles on it. If we don't find anything out with my lacetti maybe I'll get another 2.0 and replace it, or at least each sensor.

[kinkyllama]

Well they're starting to find little possible problems.

Some strange ones though. Codes for both o2 sensors (I think two codes each), and CPS sensor....all of which have less than 5k miles on them and didn't throw codes after I replaced them.

The spark plugs I had were fried apparently. They just looked ugly, nothing really out of the norm other than normal wear and tear expected from allot of miles but I doubt they had over 10k miles. Probably around 5k as well. They werre cheap plugs though, and are being replaced with NKG plugs....kinda hoping the MSD stuff fried the plugs since they were cheapy ones.

What should I have them look for with the speed sensor on the tranny? Since they are no familiar with these car and that gearbox isn't even factory they'll probbaly need to know what they're looking for.

[PrecisionBoost]

Well my point about the turbo install is that your paying to go back and fourth... stock to aftermarket to stock with lots of problems along the way.

It's pretty simple.... a good shop will rewire your system with a piggyback and get rid of your gremlins in the process.

As far as the speed sensor it's a matter of pulses per revolution.... if you speedometer is correct I have to think that your ok on this one.


To me it just sounds like a bunch of poorly done hack installations resulting in all kinds of electrical problems.

You say your getting both O2 sensors and the CPS sensor..... well.... like I said before.... if someones hack electrical job wrecked the 5V reference in your ECU then your likely to get problems with the sensors and codes.

Once it recognizes a few bad sensors it's going to jump right into limp mode which will make the car run like shit.

I know you said you put in a new ECU but the point is that if the 5V reference of one of the lines is a partial short or cross wired it will damage every single ECU you put in the car the second you turn the ignition on the first time. ( so you could put in a hundred new ECU's and it won't solve your problem )

The correct way to do it is to analyse the system, figure out what data lines are at fault, repair the problem then put in a new ECU..... not "throw in a new ECU and see what happens"


I'm not saying that I'm sure that the 5V reference is an issue..... but it would be the first thing I would check.

Really when it comes down to it mechanics suck at electrical..... you need someone like me with both an automotive and electronics background ( I'm an Electronics Eng. Tech. )


Most mechanics know how to troubleshoot general stuff that would come up but when it comes right down to it you had all kinds of stuff in there being installed by a number of different shops/mechanics.

It's as simple as having two separate reference lines and simply mixing them up when removing the aftermarket stuff.... that's all it takes.... your car might run... but it won't be right.


You fixed up the loom in the engine but what about all the wiring inside the car?

Perhaps somewhere down there your pushing power from a constant voltage source to an ignition only wire.

Sure to most mechanics they flip the switch a few times and say "yup.... there's 12V" but when it comes right down to it you need to know exactly where your drawing current from and you have to know what effect it will have on the entire system.

I don't "test" wires until I find one that works.... I check all the schematics and set up a mock wiring routine before I even look at the wiring in the car.


That is to say I have a big spreadsheet and diagram showing exactly which wire on which connector goes to which aftermarket setup


Here's another one.... did you know that you have shielded wires inside the wiring loom?

Yes.... and if your guys didn't know that they may have cut it back and your getting massive amounts of electrical noise feeding back into the ECU.


There are a whole pile of places people might think to cut into some wiring but when it comes down to it there is only one correct way to do it to keep everything from screwing up.

I would even consider wiring up certain sensor data lines with my own shielded wire right up to the aftermarket unit to avoid backfeed of noise through the unshielded "aftermarket" hook up line into the ECU.


I wish I could be sympathetic..... but to be honest this is your fault for not having a "plan" in place to have the project done quickly by one shop or individual.

[kinkyllama]

Anyone know if the D16 and D20 speed sensors are the same?

Would like to replace mine to see if that clears anything up and I have that extra D16 one.

[gse_turbo]

Anyone know if the D16 and D20 speed sensors are the same?

Would like to replace mine to see if that clears anything up and I have that extra D16 one.

I was just reading what someone was right to existence on mig about it.

they said the sensor seams to be the same but there might be a difference in the reluctor in the transmission.

at any rate you should be ok... anyone else know more specifically.

Garrett

[exist3nce]

Anyone know if the D16 and D20 speed sensors are the same?

Would like to replace mine to see if that clears anything up and I have that extra D16 one.

I was just reading what someone was right to existence on mig about it.

they said the sensor seams to be the same but there might be a difference in the reluctor in the transmission.

at any rate you should be ok... anyone else know more specifically.

Garrett

Yeah I saw that post as well, even if the speedo is off, its worth a try.

[kinkyllama]

The CPS sensor in the car seams to have a bit high resitance so we're swapping that out. They said the unplugged it for a little drive and the car didn't act any different which makes me think it's the CPS sensor...but I drove with it unplugged once for feedback to Tom and I remember it driving much different. Running very rich and hesitating allot.

Compression is very good, 190-200 on all four.

Replacing the charcoal cannister because of a random CEL that comes and goes about it. Could that effect the car much though?

Really running out of ideas now. We're installing a bung finally for my wideband and a battery cut off because something is draining my battery again and we can't find it.

One of the few ideas left is to check timing. So what are the factory specs on that?

[MMamdouh]

the lanos that i bought had its charcoal canister removed... car didn't feel any different

MMamdouh

[kinkyllama]

One of the few ideas left is to check timing. So what are the factory specs on that?

Anyone know the factory timing specs?

[kinkyllama]

Well we changed the CPS to a sort of new one with less than 4,000 miles on it...never hooked up to my ECU, harness, or my car before. It tested much less resistance than the CPS that was already in the car. My car is still throwing a CPS code. The shop doing the work are VW experts (but very knowledgeable with all cars) and said with VWs that usually means the CAMS jumped a tooth but that almost always destroys the belt but sometimes only tears it but keeps it from coming apart completely.

They're doing the wideband bung, a cut-off switch, then checking the timing. We also just replaced the MAP and throttle position sensor. After everything we've done the car runs slightly better but still has the major issue of not revving above 5k rpms. We’re doing the battery cut off because my batteries are still being drained, no idea why, this is the third dry cell battery that won't hold a charge at all now and 4th battery overall. I thought I fixed the problem a few months ago because it was fine for months but now it’s back. They were unable to figure out where the drain was from.

They should be finished with all this today, if it doesn’t fix the car I’m going to try to talk the Suzuki dealer into looking at it. Shitty thing is they’re 30min-one hour drive away and we still don’t know if my whole car randomly shutting off and not starting problem has been fixed. They haven’t experienced it on the test drives.