My forenos never ending problems....help!

MMamdouh · Post by **MMamdouh** » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:40 am

i had fans issues 2 weeks ago on both lanoses

the symptoms were similar on both cars... fans doesn't kick in when they are supposed to and car start to over heat, when coolant temp sensor is unplugged the fans doesn't work but the engine revs go up a little bit... when fans are given direct power from battery they work

for some reason the fans on a lanos works with a complicated setup of 3 relays... i removed the covers of all 3 relays and triggered them manually to see if they are working and the wiring from the relays to fans is OK... first relay would trigger the small fan at high speed, second relay would trigger both fans at low speed, third relay would trigger the big fan at high speed... (now for the tricky part) first and second relay would trigger small fan at low speed... all three relays would trigger both fans at high speed.

i couldn't understand shit from that setup so i went to an electrician with both cars... my car turned out to have a fried wire at the backside of the fuse panel at the driver's left foot where dad's car had a blown fuse in the fuse panel at the driver's foot as well

during my drive to the electrican i made a jumper on the second relay to trigger the small fan at high speed all the time and drove some 40k kms at speeds up to 130kph and then a few traffic lights and very low speed traffic and the car never overheated.

MMamdouh

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 8:55 pm

I'll play around with it some more and maybe just do the switch thing...

I'm starting to have problems starting the car. I'm guess it's the starter but really don't know anything about maintenance type things until I come across them myself. I'll turn the key and it'll just click but won't crank at all, I turn the key again and it'll start right up (usually). So what would this likely be?

Big Jeff · Post by **Big Jeff** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:22 pm

kinkyllama wrote:I'll play around with it some more and maybe just do the switch thing...

I'm starting to have problems starting the car. I'm guess it's the starter but really don't know anything about maintenance type things until I come across them myself. I'll turn the key and it'll just click but won't crank at all, I turn the key again and it'll start right up (usually). So what would this likely be?

it sounds like the starter motor, my dad drive a rover and had the same problem with his car he would turn the key and all he got was a click

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Fri Jul 25, 2008 9:24 pm

it could be a bad ground or loose wire. might be a dieing battery. what kind of grounding system do you have on the car? if your grounds are bad that could account fo the batterys dieing like you have had in the past

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 2:23 am

daewoomofo wrote:it could be a bad ground or loose wire. might be a dieing battery. what kind of grounding system do you have on the car? if your grounds are bad that could account fo the batterys dieing like you have had in the past

It's the battery. The alternator is okay-good, starter is good, so it must be the battery. Another yellow top too. My radio will turn off sometimes and my lights flicker at idle. One time the car just shut off at a light (was idling fine before) and started right back up but I had to enter the radio code like I removed the battery completly. I guess my battery chooses when to work

I think it's got a free replacment warranty still though

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 4:19 am

It's not the battery. The optima still has 12.33 after a couple hours and the car's acting the same way with my other battery...actually worst. It died a couple times. Might be grounds as the shop removed several of mine and I only have one left that looks like it's really cheap wire and connectors.

I got another new problem though now...maybe related to whatevers been draining the battery. My highs won't come off and are staying on with the lows which normally isn't possible to have them on at the same time unless you're holding the level manually. Where would this glitch be, in the steering wheel area where the lever is? If so should I know about the air bag so I know what I can and cannot do.

daewoomofo · Post by **daewoomofo** » Sat Jul 26, 2008 9:45 am

sounds like its the switch. if your worried about the air bag deploying (legit consern) disconnect the battery totaly. let the car sit for 10 min then setp on the brake so that any power that has been stored in what ever in the car used pn the brake lights.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:09 pm

Added some good grounds and am still getting the lights dimming at idle. I haven't driven enough alone (well, paying attention) to tell if it's as bad. Can't say if the battery is still dying since I disconnect it everytime I leave the car (cuz the lights).

The starting issue is still there though and very strange. I always tried cranking it and when it didn't go I tried again...but I recently just started holding it in the starting position. When I turn the key to start it the fuel pump turns on right away, it clicks, but then the car starts usually .5 seconds to as much as 4 seconds later with nothing happening in that time frame. Sometimes it fires right up. Normally my car has always started up very fast, faster than any other cars I've driven much.

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 2:55 pm

Only three things could cause that fault. Battery, Starter, or Alternator.

My vote is alternator. Are you sure, sure, sure it's fine? Because everything you describe screams alternator. The dimming in idle and stalling, as well as the starting issues can be attributed to this. The reason you're not having bigger problems is probably because of the properties of the Yellow Top...since it has a high amperage and retains voltage well.

When your car is running, the alternator isn't producing enough power to provide powerful spark to the engine, this causes rough idle...along with the lights dimming. Since the battery has to work overtime, it drains itself and gives you a hard time starting it.

Get a voltmeter or volt gauge and drive around for a little bit and observe the drops in voltage in idle. My car idles at 14.0 or more volts, which is normal and stable, but anything above 13 is ok. Dropping below 13 to 12, or even 11 shows a problem.

Check the tension on the alternator belt. If it's loose, it could be spinning in place and not giving enough torque to spin the alternator. If this doesn't clear it up, take off the alternator and take it in to Advance for their free testing. This will tell you if this is your problem.

Keep in mind that a faulty alternator can be the cause of a lot of problems, from rough idle, strangely blown fuses, missing or lack of power, anything. This could be that which is causing your problems.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:25 pm

BosnianLanos wrote:Only three things could cause that fault. Battery, Starter, or Alternator.

I'm not sure, I've only had the later two tested once recently. lol. I did plan on having it done again today providing I make it over there in time. The serpentine belt dose really need to be replaced. I have a parts engine that I was thinking of using the alternator from for the hell of it. They said my alternator was good, meaning it was about at half its life and that they starter was good. I know it's not the battery now though. They tested the alternator while in the car, is this a reliable way to test it?

I'll do the things you suggest in the next day or two and let you know what I find. Thanks for the input!

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:53 pm

...Did they test the load, or did they test the charging system...basically just the voltage? I personally like to take it off and take it in, then, when it's isolated, they can tell you exactly what is up. Sometimes a strong battery can compensate for a weak alternator and give a false reading.

Just to be sure, take both alternators (from the parts engine and on-car engine) and get them tested. If they show the same readings...then you're good, if there is a large disparity, no go, put the better one in.

Also...make sure your ECU is good. Bad charging, fans not kicking on, erratic idling, strange headlight problems...sounds like trippy ECU, but who knows, it's something very difficult to test...other than just getting a new one!

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Tue Aug 05, 2008 11:35 pm

kinkyllama wrote:I got another new problem though now...maybe related to whatevers been draining the battery. My highs won't come off and are staying on with the lows which normally isn't possible to have them on at the same time unless you're holding the level manually.

Fixed this issue, just replaced the blinker/headlight lever. I think it fixed my starting issue though too! The last couple days my car wouldn't start at all. I finally got the part in the mail to replace the headlight/blinker lever, replaced it, and started the car maybe 15x. Everytime it started right up. So hopefully that's the end of that, we'll see.

I have an issue with my turbo timer though. I thought it was the timer itself so I bought a new one but it turns out it's the wiring. How often does a wire just go bad?! I had it happen with a speaker wire once that best buy did, they told me they had never seen anything like that. Anyways, I checked all the wires and they're all in good looking condition, including all the connectors. I can't even figure out exactly which wire it is but I know it's one of two because when I move them the slightest bit near the timer part it turns on for a split second before shutting back off.

BosnianLanos · Post by **BosnianLanos** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 12:23 pm

Wires don't necessarily "go bad" they will continue to transfer electricity as long as there is a single strand of copper that is connected inside the jacket (providing that the amperage doesn't melt it of course). Wires only fail to do their job if that which is conducting the electricity ceases to conduct. That could be due to cracking, weak connections, shorting, being broken internally, corrosion, etc etc.

Just replace the harness, or for that matter just the wires, you can probably leave the connectors, and it should work.

Glad to hear you got it fixed though! Trust me, I NEVER would have suspected that that was the part in question, but it's good that you did!

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:40 pm

BosnianLanos wrote:Wires don't necessarily "go bad" they will continue to transfer electricity as long as there is a single strand of copper that is connected inside the jacket (providing that the amperage doesn't melt it of course). Wires only fail to do their job if that which is conducting the electricity ceases to conduct. That could be due to cracking, weak connections, shorting, being broken internally, corrosion, etc etc.

Just replace the harness, or for that matter just the wires, you can probably leave the connectors, and it should work.

Glad to hear you got it fixed though! Trust me, I NEVER would have suspected that that was the part in question, but it's good that you did!

Yeah I'm going to replace the harness. I have a couple on hand (bought one for the lanos) but was hoping to sell the third one for $20+usd. Damn wires look flawless though.

Didn't end up being it

The car kept starting up fine another 15x but then wouldn't start again. I'll have the shop look into it for me.

kinkyllama · Post by **kinkyllama** » Thu Aug 07, 2008 5:01 am

It turns out the shop that does all the work I go too checked the starter, iginition system, and alternator last time my car was in. The starting issue has either been really bad (takes a few mins) or not at all since the lever change. Well I guess the only thing left is either a wiring issue or more likely the ignition lock itself?

The shop is going to check the cooling fans one more time, if they see nothing wrong then they're going to just wire them to a switch on Monday. We're also installing my SMT7 which I hope to have tuned slightly for an N/A idea for all U20SED owners.