So i bought an '89 Sunbird Turbo for parts...

anesTHEtic34 · Post by **anesTHEtic34** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 10:00 am

oh boy is this thing a friggin junker. i only paid $300 for the whole car. but hey, it runs at least. anyway, before i even think about doing the swap i'm gonna get new seals and bearings put in the engine, plus get my port and polish, cam regrind, and all that good sheeyot done and out of the way so i don't have to have my engine taken apart 50 times. i'll keep you guys up on how things go as they happen.

daewooluvr · Post by **daewooluvr** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 2:17 pm

damn, I'm getting behind in the game...

anesTHEtic34 · Post by **anesTHEtic34** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 3:00 pm

eh, i wouldn't say behind. you've got your car looking good. i wouldn't call that a waste of time. mine happens to be ugly and slow at the moment, ugly, probably for a while... slow... not any longer than i can help it.

daewooluvr · Post by **daewooluvr** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:12 pm

Ok, to do this swap. All we need is the engine, possibly the transmission, and the ECU right?

anesTHEtic34 · Post by **anesTHEtic34** » Fri Dec 12, 2003 6:57 pm

i'm trying to use as little out of the sunbird as possible. we'll find out for sure soon enough

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:16 am

The sunbird tranny is either an Isuzu 5spd or a GM TH125 automatic so neither of them work on the Lanos

But since the Lemans's Getrag F16 5spd was on the N/A 2.0L the F16 will also bolt onto the 2.0L Turbo (same block)

Given the F16 in the Lemans is identical to the Lanos your stock tranny ( with a new clutch ) will work fine.

One thing to note is that the naturally aspirated 2.0L (LT2) from the LeMans and 2.0L turbo (LT3) from the Sunbird GT are different than the other naturally aspirated 2.0L (LE4) found in the Cavalier and Sunbirds of the same year ( different bore X Stroke )

In the VIN the eighth digit will tell you the engine.

"M" = LT3 2.0L Turbo MPFI ( C20E )
"K" = LT2 2.0L naturally aspirated TBI
"H" = LE4 2.0L N/A MPFI ---> avoid this engine as it will not work

I have about 100 pictures of the disassembly procedure so far and I have been talking to Maniac16V about sponsoring this site and expanding his internet hosting package to get more webspace so that I can make a gallary and post the pictures that show every single electrical,mechanical and vacume connection on the entire 2.0L turbo engine. ( as well as electrical diagrams from by Sunbird manual )

I figure that when all is said and done there will be about 300 pictures from start to finish.

It shows enough that even people with limited mechanical knowledge should be able to do this swap.

So the main things you will want for this swap is the engine, ECU, wiring harness and an engine mount from a naturally aspirated LeMans 2.0L

As well I should warn you that you should consider replacing the crappy factory connecting rod bolts with ARP fastner bolts since this is the weak spot on the engine. ( this is an easy 30 minute job )

The factory engine did not come with an intercooler so this might be a good idea... and the ECU has a boost cut so if you plan to go over about 12psi of boost you will have to either clamp the map sensor or install some kind of bleed in the system.

The ECU is an OBDI system so modification of parameters is very easy and there are aftermarket reprogrammed chips for guys who have done modifications.

The following forum will be of interest to you..... http://www.j-body.org/forums/

If you go into the second generation J-body section you will find a pile of stuff on the 2.0L turbo ( use the search engine)

You will also find articles from a guy by the name of NED who runs extreemly fast 1/4miles with his Sunbird GT 2.0L Turbo ( I think he's in the low 11's at the moment.... I can't remember)

He has 2 extra injectors built into his engine to increase the fuel requirements ( I think he runs around 20PSI of boost.... not sure)

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 12:31 am

I now have ...

1 - 2.0L turbo ("M") engine complete
1 - 2.0L n/a ("K") engine
2 - Garret T25 turbos
2 - Getrag F16 5spd Transmissions
3 - ECU's
2 - Wiring Harnesses
1 - 1987 Sunbird GT without an engine
1 - Factory service manual for the 1987 Pontiac Sunbird ( all versions )

I also took pictures of a chopped up 8V head so that heavy porting can be done without risk of breaking into the water jacket.

This head was cut into small 1/2" to 1" pieces with a metal cutting band saw. ( about 10 pictures )

The great thing about having these pictures is that you can physically calculate the exact dimensions to the oil galleries and water jacket.

anesTHEtic34 · Post by **anesTHEtic34** » Sat Dec 13, 2003 1:54 am

you guys friggin rock. you're saving me an assload of experimentation time.

oh yeah, how hard is it going to be to add an intercooler?

Post by **PrecisionBoost** » Sun Dec 14, 2003 12:04 am

I haven't done it yet, but a guy by the name of GSI Turbo did it on his 2.0L Turbo LeMans without too much problem. He has totally custom body work including a nice bumper with a huge hole set up specificly for the intercooler.

Another guy on this forum that is doing the swap is Goldenboy but I don't know how far he has gone with his project.

When I get around to it I will probably fabricate the turbo to intercooler pipe and intercooler to intake pipe out of thin wall 304 stainless or polished aluminum. ( I will probably produce a few dozen and sell them if the price is decent)

I'm really contemplating a twin series turbo setup with a bypass wastegate setup.

One turbo will be small to get things spooled up quickly at low RPM and the other will be a much larger turbo ( like a T28 )

I was thinking that I'd put the T28 first ( since the T28 uses the same flange as the stock T25 )

After this main "large" turbo I would put a second much smaller turbo (haven't decided which yet) and a secondary external waste gate in parallel with the smaller turbo.

This way the small turbo spins up quick and reaches it's peak efficency just as the bigger T28 starts spooling.

I will have the secondary external wastegate open up and bypass the smaller turbo so as to not create a restriction for the larger T28. ( since the smaller turbo will drop off the compressor efficency map at higher intake volumes)

If done right I should be able to get a very nice pressure vs RPM curve and make serious horsepower numbers throughout the powerband. (unlike most guys who over compensate and set up a single huge turbo that doesn't spool up until 5000 RPM )

Of course this all depends on space.... a twin turbo might take up too much room.

Speaking of space, you will also have to get rid of the tiny stock radiator and find a nice thick one that will mount infront of the area where the stock horns are.

This will give you about 4" to 6" of room in the front.... I might just buy an aftermarket performance radiator but I will have to find one that fits.

By the way if you do this move with the rad you have to get rid of the stock latch position..... I plan to have a carbon fiber or fiberglass hood so I won't need this stock latch ( it will have external pin type latches on the outside edge of the hood)

I'm also thinking about changing the hood so that the grill section stays down between the headlights permanantly. (insted of the grill being put into the hood)