Power difference/potential between T22SED and T20SED??

[Big P]

Well, for the longest time I have had my heart set on getting a T22SED motor for my turbo project because I figured that with all things being equal, the larger displacement engine will make more power. I have been searching for some time now, and the scarcity of these engines are making me think that I might have to settle for the most readily available engine I can find. So, if I do find a good running T20SED, what is the power difference between the two(stock that is)? Are there any major reliability issues with parts breakage, etc.? I do plan on using a turbo with a max boost of 25 psi(don't worry, I will build the internals to handle it!) so how much variation would there be? I'm not looking for exact figures, just rough guesstimates. So, I guess I could number my questins like this...

1. How much HP/TQ does the T20SED have stock?
2. How much HP/TQ does the T22SED have stock?
3. Besides the crank, pistons, and rods, what would be things to look for breaking under boost?
4. If both the T20SED and T22SED were built the same way with the same boost, how much extra HP/TQ would there be if any?

Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully answer all of my questions. Oh, and sorry for being a post whore, but I want to make sure that I have all of my info correct before I start a project of this magnitude. Thanks again, Paul Moore

[daewooluvr]

First off, let me ask, how much do you plan on putting into this project and what do you hope to get out of it.

To handle the amount of boost you were talking about it would mean extensive block and head work.

With all the internals and work done I'd say it'd be about $10K USD.

Not to mention all the dyno time needed to tune it.

[Big P]

Well, what I would be looking for is about 400HP/TQ when under the full 25 psi of boost. Block work would include o ringing the deck for optimum sealing, some type of cylinder wall stiffener(ie. hardblock/cylinder concrete, etc.) squaring the deck, maybe a slight oversize on the bore, align honing the mains. All this would be done with a torque plate to keep everything in specs. Fitted into the block would be a custom forged steel crank, custom forged Crower rods and JE forged pistons with moly rings. Head work would be checking the sealing surfaces for straightness. Also, smoothing/contouring/enlarging the combustion chamber, bowl blend, port and polish the intake and exhaust ports, 3 angle valve job with the valves back cut to increase flow/reduce turbulence. Cometic head gasket. Not sure about the cams as of yet. I think that it is very possible to achieve this goal. The work will be done bits at a time. I have to find and buy an engine first!!!! Then I can strip it down, send it to a machine shop and have them work their magic while I get the custome parts made. Then, have the machine shop assemble it, or I can do it myself it doesn't really matter. I am having a hard time trying to find one of these damn things to start with.

[kinkyllama]

Thanks for taking the time to read, and hopefully answer all of my questions. Oh, and sorry for being a post whore, but I want to make sure that I have all of my info correct before I start a project of this magnitude. Thanks again, Paul Moore

A post whore? Out of the 350 (or so) comments ive made maybe 10 of those were helping out other people... lol.

[DomWoo]

where do you live??

[PrecisionBoost]

Well.... I will tell you one thing.... I'm having a really hard time finding any forged parts for the T22SED.... the T20SED has a pile of bottom end parts available..... forged and billet steel crankshafts, forged rods from half a dozen manufacturers, forged or hypereuretic pistons in an array of compression ratios.

One easy modification that many of the Opel guys do is to bore the block out to 87mm to get some extra displacement. (lots of pistons available that will fit)

I know where I can get a 2.4L crank that should fit but I don't know if it's going to be any good for higher horsepower levels yet. ( hopefully I will pick one up this summer and have it tested )

I'm hoping for a total output of 2.5L from my T22SED

I'm looking to make around 600 to 650whp..... I'm completely boring the cylinders out to the waterjacket, installing darton centrifugal cast ductile steel sleeves with hardblok in the bottom end.

I also have a deck plate planned to raise the deck height and get the rod ratio to something favorable.Raising the deck is relatively easy with the addition of sleeves.

Getting back to your engine.... I don't know if you really need O-Ringing the deck if your using a cometic gasket.... you might end up distorting the gasket such that it won't seal worth a damn.

There are lots of cams available but the stock "economy" cam is pretty decent for a turbo engine.... you don't want to go too aggressive like you would on a NA engine.

Top end parts are available to get the RPM levels up to 10,000 to 12,000 RPM..... you should really start talking with Tom @ 360 Dynamics .... we've both done a pile of homework on these engines and have found many high horsepower high RPM components.

As far as horsepower....I'm going to guess that a 2.2L would proably make roughly 100 more horsepower due to the longer stroke.... which works good with a turbo charger.

Most of the extra torque provided by the turbocharger system occurs after 90 degrees of piston movement..... so the longer the stroke the more power you will squeeze out of the turbo engine.

As well turbocharged engines can benifit from a longer connecting rod due to the fact that there is more dwell time at TDC and BDC.

Both of these increase piston speed dramaticly so really decent forged connecting rods and bolts are a huge must.

[Neon Driver]

Seeing as you plan on frankenstiening the car, why not consider a 2.4L out of the Chrysler Cloud cars ( Breeze, Cirius, Stratus, and minivan)? All of the SRT internals bolt into it, and last check a piston and rod assembly were only $80 CDN.

I have seen this setup dyno out to 240whp/270wtq. That was in a very mild setup, 12psi IIRC.

There are many SRTs running 400+whp on stock internals, so this maybe a consideration for you.

For sourcing parts check neons.org and srtforums.com

AC

[Big P]

Very good idea however the Daewoo engine uses the same block that is currently in my sunbird. The whole 2.2L motor swap is basically a direct bolt it. I would have to have custom mounts and brackets made for the 2.4L Chrysler motor to fit into it, not to mention how do I get it to mate with my transmission? I do appreciate your input, though!

[PrecisionBoost]

The easiest swap is the T22SED and T20SED but I agree that the 2.4L SRT engine is quite a decent unit.

A friend who owns a local tuner company called APEX Modified has a very quick SRT-4 running very close to 400Whp.

http://www.apexmodified.ca/

It's possible I might have some involvement in the company in the future so I will be learning about Neons.

I will be sticking to my Optra but the Neon market is exploding now that the SRT-4 is starting to kill imports.

[Neon Driver]

Yup I have dealt w/ Apex, they are an awesome company! I bought a filled motor mount, my Long tube header, and am in the process of getting some Koni Yellows from them.

I am aware of their SRT as well, it was the first one in canada.

AC