Engine misfire

[darsh4126]

My check engine light was flashing couple of times when i was in the free way, and as soon as i turned off the engine and restart it went away. I have ElmScan 5, and i recoded the whole trip while the check engine light was flashing, and still no code. This does not happen all the time.

When i ran the recoded data i saw that my fuel system status was going into open loop 11 times(each time it was about 6 second, some 8 seconds, two time it was 11 seconds). So, looked at the O2 sensor values, and they show 0 volts some times, and below 0.1 sometimes. So i went ahead and replaced both O2 sensors.

Then i recorded a another trip, but MIL did not flash. However, when i ran the recoded data i still see it is still going into the open loop with low O2 sensor values. My coolant temperature is about 179F-185F. I am just thinking maybe my engine is not warm enough.

[darsh4126]

I would like add just little information. I was wrong about the coolant temperature. It went to the open loop with even 200F. So, i guess coolant temperature is not an issue. It goes to the open loop, and it is very random.

[Daniel]

Have you changed something related with distribution: Tbelt, crank sensor, cam sensor, or have you disconnect the batery?

Read this:

Bulletin No.: TSB-008-01
Model(s): All
Date: December 19, 2001
VIN Range: All
Description: TEC Test Procedure
Group: Engine
Reference: Scan 100 Operator Manual
Prod. Dates: All

Whenever an Engine Control Module (ECM), Powertrain Control Module (PCM) or battery is disconnected/replaced, the TEC Test Procedure (referred to as the "Crankshaft Position Variation Learning Procedure" in the Service Manual) must be performed using the Scan 100 Scan Tool. This procedure electronically aligns the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor to the Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor to correct for variations in Timing Belt length, camshaft and crankshaft pulleys, etc. Failure to perform the TEC Test procedure can cause poor driveability and a variety of Diagnostic Trouble Codes (DTCs) including P1336 - 58x Crank Tooth Not Learned to be stored in diagnostic memory along with Malfunction Indicator Light (MIL) illumination.

Whenever any component that may affect the relationship between the Camshaft Position (CMP) Sensor and the Crankshaft Position (CKP) Sensor is removed or replaced, the TEC Test Procedure must be performed. Items that may affect the "learned" alignment include the CMP Sensor, the CKP Sensor, the ECM/PCM, the Timing Belt, Cylinder Head, Short Block, Camshaft Pulley(s), Engine Assembly, etc.

A number of seemingly unrelated DTCs and/or driveability concerns have also resulted from vehicles where the TEC Test was not properly completed after battery disconnect/ replacement or ECM/PCM replacement. Various misfire DTCs, rough idle concerns, intermittent stalling, or reports of MIL flashing with no DTCs set are common. If you are diagnosing a vehicle with any of these concerns, please complete the TEC Test and re-check the vehicle before continuing with your diagnosis.

A new Engine Control Module (ECM) or Powertrain Control Module (PCM) is programmed with the latest version of the vehicle program for the specific model and does not need to be "Programmed" using the Scan 100 Scan Tool. However, it is still necessary to connect the Scan 100 Scan Tool to the vehicle to complete the installation process. After the ECM/PCM is properly installed and the battery reconnected, please perform the following procedure:

TEC Test Procedure:

Note: Before beginning the TEC Test Procedure, ensure that the engine temperature is above 149°F (65°C).

1. Connect the Scan 100 Scan Tool to the Data-Link Connector (DLC) and press the "Power" button.

2. From the Main Menu, choose "Reprogramming" (selection 6).

Note: The Scan 100 may indicate that the ABS Fuse (Lanos F-19, Nubira F-15) be removed on 1998-99 Lanos and Nubira models equipped with Delphi ABS.

3. Choose "Miscellaneous" (selection 3).

4. Replacement ECM/PCM Only - Choose "VIN Input" (selection 9). When indicated, enter "password" 0-0-0-0, then press "ESC" to go to the VIN Input screen. Scroll left-to-right to choose the character and scroll up-and-down to change each character. Press "ENTER" when the VIN is correct to save the VIN and return to the "Miscellaneous" screen.

5. Choose TEC Test (selection. Start the engine when prompted and press "ENTER" to continue. When prompted, with the shift selector in the "Park" position and holding the brake pedal down firmly with your left foot, depress the throttle fully and allow the engine to reach fuel cut at 4,000 rpm. Hold the throttle at this point (approximately 2-3 seconds) until the rpm begins to drop and "TEC Test Normal (Good)" is displayed, then release the throttle.

Note: The Scan 100 will only allow one (1) TEC Test to be completed per key cycle.

[darsh4126]

Thank you very much Daniel

Very helpful information, and i am going to look into that.

thanks again

[darsh4126]

Yes i forgot to tell you. I had the timing belt replaced in mid july, this MIL flashing thing came in mid august. I am going to look into what you said.

[darsh4126]

HI Daniel

I checked my service manual, but i don't see this crankshaft relearn procedure. If you don't mind can you e-mail me the service manual that has this procedure. My e-mail is djaya127@yahoo.com.

Thanks

[Richieb]

I'll bet it's the Cam angle sensor.
Fir some reason, some mechanics nip the cable/wires that go to it when the change the belt. Usually the damage us at the back of the pulley, close to the sensor.
Opel/Holden/Vauxhall 16v engines often have this damage after belt change. The cable is very close to the pulley, and usually one of the cores of three wires gets damaged, and plays the intermittent game for a long time.
If you see the black plastic tube dis-figured close to the sensor, then that's the in't problem.

[benzino]

HI Daniel

I checked my service manual, but i don't see this crankshaft relearn procedure. If you don't mind can you e-mail me the service manual that has this procedure. My e-mail is djaya127@yahoo.com.

Thanks

look in your service manual for the procedure for idle learn procedure
it involves turning on and off the ignition

page: 1F-22
(pg 340 if your manual has 2038 pages)

[Daniel]

HI Daniel

I checked my service manual, but i don't see this crankshaft relearn procedure. If you don't mind can you e-mail me the service manual that has this procedure. My e-mail is djaya127@yahoo.com.

Thanks

I appologize for my previous information concerning the TEC procedure. After a closer look at service manuals that seems to be relative to the 1.8DOHC engines on Nubira in Europe.

[darsh4126]

Yes benzino i did found the Idle learn procedure , and thank you. No problem Daniel you got me thinking on something very important.

Last time when i had a power steering leak, the guy who worked on my car had to pull the crank shaft pulley, and the crank shaft sensor to gain some room to the power steering pump, however he did not disconnected the battery.

What happened was this, crank shaft reluctor pulley has 58 teeth where the gap between 57th and the 58th tooth is wider so it will provide a sync pulse(i guess it synchronize with the cam, and i do not know, but i found this from the service manual).

Since the guy did not disconnected the battery so the ECM kept the previously learned crankshaft information, while when he installed the crank shaft reluctor pulley it was at a different orientation(as you know that the crank shaft reluctor pulley does not align with any mark, and ECM is keeping track of the crank shaft orientation). Thus, ECM previously learned information did not match with the new information so ECM recognized this as a misfire. So, i went ahead and disconnected the battery, and reconnected it. Problem did not came back yet.

I think this is what happened. The thing to learn here is, it's always a good idea to reset your ECM after disconnecting your main sensors such as cam sensor, crank shaft sensor, etc.

[benzino]

that's great to hear!

[darsh4126]

Ooh by the way does anybody know what this means?

TID $02 Manufacturer defined
Component ID $50 Fail

[benzino]

where did you see that?

[Richieb]

Looks like a Scanner issue/code for some message it can't interpret in it's data base.
Virtually all scanners can read the codes, or at least trap them as an issue. It's when the codes the manufacturers use for certain problems are not released by them, that you get numbers/cypher that is meaningless unless you have the item it refers to.
I spent $11k on one, and it still threw out odd codes it could not interpret. Worst one was Prius codes. It, for example, had problems isolating certain battery items/issues. The OEM one will always be the best when it comes to manufacturer specific issues.
I think TEC-2 is the one for our rides. That would tell the story more clearly.

[darsh4126]

Autos built after 1996 is compliance with $06 on board diagnostics. What this would do is your ECM would run certain test on certain elements in your car such as Catlytic Converter etc. If such an equipment is below the pass margin it will show that it fail the test, and therefore such an element will fail in the near future. What this Onboard diagnostics does is it will give you a heads up, unlike DTC. DTC will show after the equipment failed.

Each manufacturer finds there own TIDs(test identification numbers), and CIDs(component identification numbers).