Different engine types

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Cristian
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Different engine types

Post by Cristian »

Hello guys,
I am new on the forum although I had this account for a while now. I have a 1998 1.6 Nubira.
I knew there were Nubira with 2.0 Leganza engines… And I also know there were a few models of those, one with 133 hp and one with 146 hp. What is the difference between them? There were some 2.2 Leganza engines in the United States, what do they have different? I have heard that only the crank and the ECU would be different, is it true? I would like to upgrade my Nubira from 1.6 to 2.0 (so I can do it legally) and then modify the engine from 2.0 to a 2.2 one and no-one would know, if the block would stay the same (because the serial number is on the block). Stock for the beginning, then we’ll see.
So:
1. What are the differences between the 2.0 133hp and 146 hp (and can you give me their engine codes)?
2. What is different in the 2.2 engine from the 2.0 one? And what would I have to do to change the 2.0 one in a 2.2 one?
The gearbox is the same on the 2.2 one as on the 2.0? D20?
Thanks for your help! This is one hell of a forum!!!! :p
Cristian
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PrecisionBoost
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Re: Different engine types

Post by PrecisionBoost »

1.6L 2.0L and 2.2L all have different blocks.

1.6L is small block... 2.0L is bigblock.... 2.2L is bigblock with a taller deck height ( approximately 1cm ).

Crank, rods, pistons are different on 2.2L.... way more parts for 2.0L than 2.2L

You would be better off modifying the 2.0L with higher compression pistons and more aggressive cams.

C20XE 2.0L 16V was good for 150hp from stock.... so it shouldn't be hard for you to do better than that.

1.6L 16V was also tuned well over 150hp with higher compression pistons and better cams.

Both would require some work on the engine management side of things.

Check out SBD Motorsports.... they are very good as squeezing out power from the 1.6L and 2.0L in naturally aspirated form.
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PrecisionBoost
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Re: Different engine types

Post by PrecisionBoost »

Gearboxes are F16/D16 and F20/D20 typically.... but one member has had very good luck with an F18

The 1.4L to 2.4L iron block engines all fit these gearboxes. ( 1.4L, 1.5L, 1.6L, 1.8L, 2.0L, 2.2L, 2.4L )

Other gearboxes that fit are the F28 and M32 ( both 6 speed )

As well there are a number of Saab gearboxes which will work with some modifications.
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Cristian
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Re: Different engine types

Post by Cristian »

So great news with the gearboxes and really bad ones about the 2.2 engine.
As long as I have seen on eBay, the cylinder head, pistons, rods, admission, and many others are the same. So the block/ crank and few others are different. I would stick with the 2.0 for the moment and I could try as you have suggested some cams,......
How many hp does the stock 2.2 engine make?
I have seen on eBay a brand new 2.0 engine for only 800 $, it was just plug and play, it even came with oil and filter… I really regretted I wasn’t in the USA to buy it, and I am pretty sure it cost A LOT to get an engine from the USA.

Thanks a lot!
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Re: Different engine types

Post by Trey05Woo »

I will never understand people's facination with the 2.xl engines... Their reliability issues are not worth the extra 20hp imo...
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PrecisionBoost
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Re: Different engine types

Post by PrecisionBoost »

Not sure why you would buy from USA.... the engines are from Opel's....and you already have them in Romania

The big difference is that the Opel's use a different engine management system than the Nubira.

As far as parts suppliers... Piper Cams and Kent Cams in the UK are the most well known, just look under Vauxhall and you will find parts.

Your 1.6L Daewoo would be the same as a X16XEV and the 2.0L Daewoo engine would be the same as the X20XEV

SBD Motorsports is also out of the UK and will have all the parts you require.

I have to think it would be much cheaper to source parts from Romania, UK, Germany, Poland
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Re: Different engine types

Post by Cristian »

Trey05WOO, the 1.6 is really quite a small engine for Nubira if you like to move a little faster, that is why I am looking for something bigger.
Thanks a lot PrecisionBoost!! I think it would be easier to get the 2.0 engine and gearbox from an actual Nubira or Leganza because there are a lot of guy buying cheap Woo's from the UK and selling them on parts here in Romania. The sports parts I know where to look for them now, thanks again!
I will be looking for a C20SED, because as long as I know this is the one that makes 146 HP.

Is the OPEL management system better than the Daewoo one?
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Re: Different engine types

Post by PrecisionBoost »

Opel uses Bosch and yes.... in many ways it's better.... mostly because people can tune the ECU where as a Daewoo ECU does not get much attention from aftermarket companies.

The C20XE has been making 150hp since the late 80's.... for it's time that was quite a bit of power.

As an example.... here is one company that does chip tuning... http://www.v-tuning.com/n_a_tuning.htm

They can make the 2.0L 16V run at 170hp without any other significant changes to the engine other than upgrading the grade of fuel used.

There is lots of room to make these engines more powerful, even the 1.6L managed 150hp without much in the way of problems ( not by V-tuning ... done by lotus during the design of the 1.6L )

Daewoo engines run a speed density system ( Air Pressure sensor, Air Temp sensor, Throttle Plate sensor, RPM ) which calculates the fuel based upon how dense the air is ( Pressure and Temp ) along with the speed of the engine.

So most people would call it a MAP (manifold absolute pressure ) engine management system.

The Bosch system uses a MAF ( Mass air flow ) which is basically a hot wire going through the center of the intake.

The more air flow, the more it cools the wire and changes it's resistance.

So in a MAF system they are directly measuring airflow.

Each system has it's advantages and disadvantages... but what it comes down to in this case is the fact that there are dozens of companies that are out there modifying the Bosch ECU's where as there is perhaps one for the Daewoo ( someone in Korea )

Personally... it would almost be easier to go with an aftermarket standalone for your engine than to try and wire in a whole Opel engine management system.... there are lots of guys who have already done that in UK/Europe and have had great success.

The best way to gain naturally aspirated engine power is by increasing the compression and increasing the RPM.

There are kits for the 2.0L to allow you to rev to 10,000 RPM or 12,000 RPM but they are very expensive ( come from Germany ) as it requires the replacement of most of the internals and valvetrain.

Compression is easy.... one can drop in new pistons.

One can also mill down the head or have the cylinder head compression chamber shape changed.

Where labor is cheap the head work is the easiest since it does not involve buying parts.... but you need to have someone that is experienced or they may end up making less power than you started with.
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Cristian
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Re: Different engine types

Post by Cristian »

As long as I can see around here, the C20LET /F28 seem to be a hell of a combination with a stock 208 hp.
Thanks again for all the explanations! I have already looked up the cams and there seems to be a wide range from where to choose.
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