Pontiac LeMans Project

[gse_turbo]

Garret, rubber mount are not the same? a recall using the same rubber mount on my 2.0 16v racer/lemans and I did change it a few times.

http://daewootech.com/pics/DSCF0049.JPG

no, I found it the hard way and confirmed with the bracket I made for Benzino. I'd have to look at it again, I think the aluminum piece for the 2.0 rubber mount sticks out further than the 1.6. I noticed it first on mine when it looked like the aluminum part was being sucked out of the rubber.

I made 100% poly mounts with fixtures to locate everything so I know they were good to begin with.

[gse_turbo]

the 1.5 mount is different to the 1.6 as well

Not sure why you think this, the 1.5L and 1.6L share the exact same block, I've even made a hybrid out using the 1.6L block with the 1.5L head , to my knowledge the 1.5 and 1.6 have the same bracket.

I will say that the picture of the engine looks like a 2.0L 8V mount to me, I could be wrong, but I've played with them many times, I even made a few mounts for people drop in the 2.0L into the lanos.

The 2.0L 8V TBI and the 1.6L 8V TBI look nearly identical at first glance and the mounts look identical until you put them side by side

The 2.0L 8V came in the higher model Lemans, I think it was a GSE Aerocoupe in the USA

I'm sure I have some spare mounts kicking around, do you want me to find you a 1.6L mount?

agreed, again.

you can't even bolt a 1.6/1.5 bracket to a 2.0 block or vise virsa.

[CarSick]

Clearly the old engine was a 1.6L engine since my SMOG test indicates a 1.6L engine. decodethis.com indicates that the car is a 1.6L automatic Aerocoupe. I removed the engine bracket directly from the old engine that was in the car, so it must be a 1.6L bracket, right?

I guess it would be useful if you found a 1.6L mount, although it seems impossible that mine is anything but a 1.6L mount.

The engine was sold to me as a 1.6L engine. I suppose that the engine could be a 2.0L. How could I tell?
The engine has a date code inside the distributor of 1992. The distributor itself is a different style than the old one, but both are pictured in the manual.

[CarSick]

Looking at the manual, a 2.0L engine wasn't offered in 1988 - only in 1989-1991. The 2.0L engine appears to have a unique valve cover as well.

[gse_turbo]

I personally think there is an issue with the right side transmission mount, or the one on the lower part of the firewall.

it's like it needs to go further back. I can't recall off hand if the rubber mount is asymmetric. perhaps the metal bracket is fine but the rubber mount might be backwards.

[CarSick]

I think I'll switch the mount around on the driver's side and loosen up the rear mount and see what happens.

[gse_turbo]

sounds good. maybe replaces the passenger side mount, remove the rearward mount and just set the engine in with the driver side and passenger side mounts bolted up.

[CarSick]

Well, I loosened all of the mounts today. The trans side body mount is slotted and offset. I had the correct offset, but I wasn't using all of the margin afforded by the slots in the mount. The center rear mount is also slotted. The pass side engine mount is ruined so I have a new one on order. One of the two bolt holes is slotted as well. The mount should be here Tuesday. As long as it is also offset, I think the riddle is somewhat solved. The engine will still be at a slight angle, but it sounds like that might be the normal condition.

[CarSick]

I also started a mounting hole template for the SAAB turbo struts.
The SAAB Struts get me the larger SAAB brakes, a larger diameter hub, the correct hub spline count to match the Lanos half shafts, and presumably stiffer springs. The lower ball joint taper appears to match the LeMans. The steering arm appears to be in the same location.

The downside is that the shock tower needs to be redrilled for three mounting holes and the strut is 1.5 inches longer. Since there isn't much meat around the shock towers anyway, one solution would be to weld in a taller tower with the proper holes and strengthen the tower as well as adding a strut tower brace mount.

Does anyone know how much negative camber could be obtained on the LeMans without modifications?

[PrecisionBoost]

I also started a mounting hole template for the SAAB turbo struts.
The SAAB Struts get me the larger SAAB brakes, a larger diameter hub, the correct hub spline count to match the Lanos half shafts, and presumably stiffer springs. The lower ball joint taper appears to match the LeMans. The steering arm appears to be in the same location.

The downside is that the shock tower needs to be redrilled for three mounting holes and the strut is 1.5 inches longer. Since there isn't much meat around the shock towers anyway, one solution would be to weld in a taller tower with the proper holes and strengthen the tower as well as adding a strut tower brace mount.

Does anyone know how much negative camber could be obtained on the LeMans without modifications?

Off hand I don't know about the camber, are you planning on installing an adjustable camber plate during the time your modifying the shock towers?

With respect to the ball joint, there have been a number of guys who have converted to the Saab aluminum control arms, they are much lighter than the stamped steel ones on the Lemans which certainly helps with racing.

[CarSick]

So the arms from a mid 90s SAAB 900 will work?
What options are there for CC plates?

[gse_turbo]

good tip on the lower control arm, I've never heard of that.

as for the strut mount. you can use the LeMans strut mount on the Saab Strut assembly and save yourself the headache of reengineering the setup.

for that kind of troubl you would be better off converting to adjustable camber/caster plates.

[CarSick]

I took the Pontiac strut tops off, but the SAAB strut diameter is substantially larger. I'd need to press a different bearing in the Pontiac part, drill out the bearing center, or turn down and thread the strut. Unless I'm missing something. Taking the SAAB strut mount off did make it easier to check and adjust my template. The extra length of the SAAB strut makes me think that there will be little compliance range left, so I think the mount will have to allow the strut to pass through the tower by the 1.5" of extra length.

[gse_turbo]

wow. interesting. I wasn't expecting that at all.

are you planning on expending the strut tower yourself? I have a technique for you that will make it relatively simple.

[CarSick]

The SAAB struts are now mounted in place. The steering arm is right where it should be and the tie rod ends fit, the lower ball joint fits, the axle shafts look to be the correct length and the splines match up. I haven't connected the brake lines yet. I had to weld the hole PnP put in the trans pan and check the diff for damage. The clutch is working, but I'm not sure if the TO Bearing will have enough throw yet, but I can spin the rotors with the clutch pedal pressed. I created a drawing in Visio that shows the key dimensions in the trans so that I could visualize how much throw I would have left. I'm finishing up the engine wiring and straining my brain to remember how certain parts of the wires routed.

The end links will no longer fit. They appear to be too close to the shaft boots. I'm also going to cut some sheet metal away from the tie rods as it looks like the pinch bolts *might* get stuck on the sheet metal under full suspension droop. I think this is because the SAAB spring installed height is higher than the LeMans springs. I'm still guessing that the 16" wheels are going to be an issue when the jack stands come out.