F20/D20/F28 Revisited

Transmissions, Clutches, torque converters, Gear ratios, Brakes, Pads, etc.

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PrecisionBoost
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Post by PrecisionBoost »

I have dozens of pics of the 5spd and automatic gearboxes..... which do have our mounting pattern.... but I couldn't get pics of the 6spd.

I even tried to get guys at the scrap yards to get me a picture.... most said "it's still on the car, if you buy it we will pull it off and send you pictures"

I tried to explain that I will gladly buy it if they can simply get me a picture.... but nobody would do it.


Here is the Saab automatic tranny
Image

Here is the FM55 manual gearbox ( 5spd )

Image

Now.... here is the Leganza Automatic...

Image

Here is a pic of a brand new Nubira Automatic....

Image

here is a nubira 5spd gearbox....

Image
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Post by exist3nce »

Damn I would gladly go and get pics of one, but there are none even in Canada according to car-parts.com. Importing from the UK sucks...
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Post by PrecisionBoost »

Well..... if you want to talk to the guys at the Saab Depot http://www.saabdepot.com/contact.html you could see if they still have a 6spd in stock.

They are in mount forest..... half way between London and Sarnia.

These are the guys that quoted me $2800 but it might be worth while to go down there and see what a 6spd looks like.... and take some digital pics.

I know you want to know if they will work for you..... and I'm offering a $50 reward so that should help pay for gas

If they are compatible then you can order on from the USA for quite a bit less and have it as a spare or even have it rebuilt by a "race transmission" specialist.

Personally.... I had no problem getting my M32 gearboxe from the UK using parcel2go..... worked great.
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Post by exist3nce »

My 2nd seller just backed out of the deal now and that puts me back at square one. He said he was ok with packing it up and that he had 3 gearboxes all mechanical speedo. I asked him to check the weight and dimensions (which he also agreed to) so I could set up parcel2go........ now a few days later he says they are all sold!!

Exactly what type of pictures do you need if I look into this saabdepot?
2004 Optra/Forenza/Lacetti - 225whp - Haltech Sprint500 - CT12B - Getrag F28 6spd - KW V3 Coilovers - FX35 Retrofit
2002 IS300 5MT - 615whp - AEM EMS - GT4088R - Built 9.5CR - R154 - TRD LSD - SupraTT T/B - Varex - LS430 Retrofit
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Post by PrecisionBoost »

Well..... a picture like the ones I posted up top showing the mounting pattern.

The mounting pattern is the only important item..... everything else can be fabricated.

The Saab Depot guy basicly gave me the run around and said he didn't have a digital camera at work.... he was more than willing to sell me the gearbox..... but stalled when asked for pictures.

If they had one in stock that was pulled off a vehicle you could ask to look at it..... you could print off the picture of the nubira manual transmission and compare the mounting pattern... as well as take a digital picture.

Unfortunatly it seems that most of these guys are really quite hard to deal with when it comes to taking pictures... I've tried atleast a dozen times.

They will confirm part numbers but for some reason they don't want to post a picture.

I have also been hoping to see one on EBAY but in all my searching I did not find a single one listed over the few months I was looking.

Before I got my SBD rebuilt F28 and my new M32 I was seriously contemplating having one shipped here from the USA just so I could see what it looks like.

If they weren't correct I figured I could always sell it up here in Canada since it seems there are hardly any available.

In the end..... I'm very happy with the two 6spd's I have right now..... to get an F28 that has been built up by SBD is a very unique thing.... I have to think it might be one of the best F28's out there.

The only reason the seller (who rally races) sold it is because he went with a "dog box" which has straight cut gears and no syncros.
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Post by exist3nce »

I'm getting tired of dealing with these UK guys who give all kinds of excuses why they won't/can't ship to me. I'll give saabdepot a call and see if they have any 2003 6 spds.
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Post by Pir0 »

That really sucks about the UK guys. But really, put into perspective, ship it to america with the small chance of it getting lost or something happening too it and waiting for ages on payments etc, or some plonker comes to his door and asks to buy one. Which would be easier?


Not saying easier justifies not selling it after saying he would but, some people just don't want the hassle.
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Post by exist3nce »

Pir0 wrote: Not saying easier justifies not selling it after saying he would but, some people just don't want the hassle.
Forgot to mention ............ I was offering him an extra $100 to do it over the asking price.
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Post by exist3nce »

Just found something very interesting............ straight cut dog engagement gearset for F20 !! Over $5000 USD though :|

http://www.quaife.co.uk/Vauxhall-Opel-A ... nt-gearkit
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Post by PrecisionBoost »

Finally found a picture of the F25 used in many Opel and Saab applications..... this is a 5spd but I think it proves that the Saab 6spd will also have this bolt pattern

Quaife offers a 6spd conversion kit for the F25.... not cheap.... but it's an option.

Here is the pic...


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Post by greenbluewoo »

this is great how much power do think it could hold and you would probaly half to make custom mounts
2.0 engine swap in the works
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Post by Pir0 »

If the stories i've read are true, and the saabs were based around the Vauxhall Cavaliers, the only mount that is different would be the gearbox mount but a standard Astra/Kadett/Lemans/Nexia mount will bolt straight onto the box. The cavalier one doesnt bolt straight to the chassis, it kindof.. loops under the bulk head and i think bolts to the chassis/cradle.

This is brilliant to know, must check the gear ratios and stuff on these f25's. Are they in the tech section? [<-lazy or what :lol] And yeah, i'd be interested to know how strong the internals are on this too.

[EDIT] Found this on the german site you posted Precision;

1. 3,38 3,67
2. 1,76 1,76 / ab MJ99 1,88
3. 1,12 1,18
4. 0,89 0,89
5. 0,77 0,70 / ab MJ99 0,77
R 3,17 3,43

There's the gear ratios for the Vaux/Opel F25. Wonder if they're the same. As far as the site says thee was only one type of f25 used in Vaux/Opels
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Post by gse_turbo »

CHECK THIS OUT! got to talking to a guy on another forum and this is what he said.

...the 5 speed basic design was used in many GM FWD cars with many changes on the internals. Most of the internals can be made into a hybrid though.

I have not found all my images yet.....but here are a few that may or may not help you....I will keep looking.


This is an Ecotec motor (only the upper half:

...Here is a photo chop I made with the (aluminum) Eco tranny.
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Post by PrecisionBoost »

The F25 was almost allways paired up with the V6 engines ( C25XE for example)

GM specifies maximum torque as the number X 10 in Nm = 250 Nm = 184 ftlb

here is the hard data.... http://media.gm.com/division/powertrain ... 03_f25.htm

Now everyone knows that Getrag makes a decent unit..... the F28 is capable of taking way more than the standard 280 Nm worth of torque.

I know that some of the Saab guys have converted to the F25 from some of the older transmissions but I never found talk about the limit of the F25 specificly.

I did find one Saab running just over 300whp that was using an F25 with Quaife internals.


All things considered the F25 can handle at least 25% more power than the F20

If I was to just take a shot in the dark here I'd guess the F25 would be capable of handling roughly 250 lb ft to 275 lb ft of torque without blowing up.

That may be on the conservative side but it all depends on how the power is being put to the pavement.

Obviously street tires will not hook up with that much torque unless the pavement is really sticky.

On the other hand a set of R compounds or drag slicks may just test the power handling capability.


The good news is that the F25 is fairly cheap and there are a number of them on Ebay.

I will try and get the Saab part number..... it will be something like FM55.... but I will have to check on that to be sure.


Personally..... I'm still more intersted in the Saab 6spd..... as they typcially mated the 6spd to the Viggen/Aero model which was their highest model.

I still have to think that the 6spd might be the F28 (or a slightly differnt version) but there is no way of knowing.

I have poured through allmost all the GM material I have and although there are many links to the F25 I have never found information on the Saab 6spd on any of the GM sites.
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Post by PrecisionBoost »

Oh.... incase nobody noticed the F25 was also found on the Saturn L300 which used the Opel 3.0L V6 ( X30XEV ??? )
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